Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Doug]

>The LMI are not forced to charge everyone they could acutally reach.
>But their charge counts as declared on everyone they could actually
>reach - hence the cause of unease.
>
>Again, you can't make an assumption about how the charge MOVE will
>actually end up at charge DECLARATIONS - they are two separate
>issues. You are not made to hit everyone you declared a charge
>against - and sometimes intervening events during the execution of
>charge moves quite significantly modify who you can hit and who you
>can't.
>J

Getting really, really confused by this thread with its several
subtexts. Lets see if I've got this bit right. Note that I'm
expressing things differently, from the point of view of the bodies
receiving of the threat of a charge:

1) During DECLARATIONS, when I lay down a CHARGE marker next to a
unit, all units in its CHARGE PATH/DISTANCE now have a charge
declared against them, and I will term them "targets."

2) When the sequence of play reaches the point where that unit must
make its Charge Move, the charger and all (???) targets will first
conduct all morale tests based on the situation at that instant.

3) Now the player must determine which of the still-eligible targets
he is "actually" charging.

4) What next?

***

The interplay between Charge Path and Charge Distance has become murky to me.

[joncleaves]

1) During DECLARATIONS, when I lay down a CHARGE marker next to a
unit, all units in its CHARGE PATH/DISTANCE now have a charge
declared against them, and I will term them "targets.">>
[
The laying down of a 'charge marker' isn't in Warrior. But I will assume it is
something you guys do locally to indicate a charge declaration.
All units in the charge path do NOT have a charge declared against them. They
have to be legal targets in charge reach.

<<2) When the sequence of play reaches the point where that unit must
make its Charge Move, the charger and all (???) targets will first
conduct all morale tests based on the situation at that instant.>>
[
True.

<<3) Now the player must determine which of the still-eligible targets
he is "actually" charging.>>
[
Well, not quite. He has to charge. The only decision is what to do if his
target evades (if any decision is left to him) or if to echelon if it is
possible to hit multiple targets after the first one(s) contacted.

J

[Doug]

>1) During DECLARATIONS, when I lay down a CHARGE marker next to a
>unit, all units in its CHARGE PATH/DISTANCE now have a charge
>declared against them, and I will term them "targets.">>
>[
>The laying down of a 'charge marker' isn't in Warrior. But I will
>assume it is something you guys do locally to indicate a charge
>declaration.
>All units in the charge path do NOT have a charge declared against
>them. They have to be legal targets in charge reach.

OK, true, but not my point. Previously, Jon, you did say "But their
charge counts as declared on everyone they could actually reach."

But my emphasis is that, at this point (Charge Declarations), a
complete set of units become "targets" and I have no control over
which particular units are contained in that set. The set is defined
by the workings of the Charge Path and Charge Reach rules. Is that
correct?

But it cannot be correct, because I have not yet done any wheels, and
changing direction by wheeling might alter the area encompassed
within my Path and Reach. Per 6.162 (Charge Reach), I don't see how
Charge Reach can be determined PRIOR to the Charge Move phase.

Unless the determination of who is a "target" needs to be done
independantly in both the Charge Declaration and Charge Move phases-
but if so it needs to be communicated much more explicitly in the
rules text. First to determine morale issues and charge responses,
then to determine who might actually be contacted (see below).

><<3) Now the player must determine which of the still-eligible
>targets he is "actually" charging.>>
>[
>Well, not quite. He has to charge. The only decision is what to do
>if his target evades (if any decision is left to him) or if to
>echelon if it is possible to hit multiple targets after the first
>one(s) contacted. Jon

But at this point (Charge Moves) the "targets" might have changed.
Some units which were "targets" at the Charge Declaration stage might
no longer be targets, and, more confusing, some units which where
were NOT targets at the Charge Declaration stage might _now_ be
targets.

This strikes me as... what's the term I'm looking for-- Post Hoc?
Circular reasoning? Not proceeding in a stepwise decision tree?

I have to understand your response above this way:
"The only decision is what to do if some of the units which were
targets during Charge Declaration have evaded etc, such that they are
no longer 'targets;' and also to decide which unit or units that are
now (in the Charge Move phase) 'targets" the charging unit will
actually contact."

Which means that I am not _required_ to decide which particular unit
I'm going to contact until the Charge Move phase. And in some
circumstances, it won't be _possible_ for me to decide until the
Charge Move phase. If this is correct, it might be obvious to you
but its something of a revelation to me.
--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then,
that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress
shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every
other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an
American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of
either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it
will ever remain, in the hands of the People."- Tench Coxe, 1788.
http://www.constitution.org/mil/cs_milit.htm

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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 9/1/2004 00:41:27 Central Daylight Time,
rockd@... writes:

Which means that I am not _required_ to decide which particular unit
I'm going to contact until the Charge Move phase. And in some
circumstances, it won't be _possible_ for me to decide until the
Charge Move phase. If this is correct, it might be obvious to you
but its something of a revelation to me.



Really, thisis being made much more complicated than it is.

First, charge path is set AFTER the initial wheel.

Second, the only decision about which targets you can hit is to echelon or
not. You still have to charge and you still make contact with the first
non-evader in the path. You can't choose not to hit that target.

The charge move rules can't describe all the various combinations as
individual examples. It does say what to do if your target evades. It does
say you
can echelon to hit a second target.

You also might have to hit two or more targets because you hit them at the
same time.

But there is no choosing not to charge. There is no choosing not to hit the
first stationary target.

Jon


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