Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Todd Schneider]

Not to go onto a tecnhical tangent, but exactly what detail can the
unaided human eye see at 240 paces?

Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. That's 720 feet away. Thats Two football
field lengths. At that disatnce, I would submit you'd see a crowd of
guys, possibly identify any banners, maybe a few weapons (swords and
spears held aloft and the like), but beyond that I am not sure.

I do think you can distinguish pigs and the like, but would smoke (if
any) from a torch be seen on a battlefield thats filled with dust and
other debris? I would submit a smart commander might even give a few
pigs away toother units, to give the appearence that each unt had
flaming pigs (or at least the potential to have some) but this is an
abstract not addressed by the rules engine IMO.

Todd


Chris Bump wrote:

> This is a source of frustration for me. The thought that a unit could
> conceal that it was hiding pigs, flamable liquids and open flame
> (since the
> zippo was not universally being used by soldiers yet) while still holding
> hoplons, and weapons and maintaining unit cohesion is anathama to me.
> But if
> it is to be allowed then how on earth can one argue, with a sense of
> seriousness, that a unit could not conceal the fact that it was concealing
> darts or for that matter fire lances.
>
> As for avalanches, if the LI is in ambush and thus cannot be seen then
> simply the declaration that the hill is rocky is enough intelligence. If
> the LI is seen and they have such weapons "piled up" so as to create an
> avalanche, then this also should be declared as it would be visible to any
> unit approaching with a modicum of a sense of concern.
>
> These types of paradox within the game frustrate me.
> Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hrisikos@... [mailto:hrisikos@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:49 PM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: declaring list rules
>
>
>
> >
> > I would like to hear from the group on what they think about
> this. It
> > would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we saying
> > that there are a significant number of players who will only buy
> certain
> > lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan to play in
> > open comps? Personally I find this strange.
>
>
> Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced *intelligence* has
> ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you whatever
> you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does the same.
> With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general, too.
>
> I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I don't
> think
> I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene (but
> I will
> show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky hill
> occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you later on my
> game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want to know,
> like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
> etc.........
>
>
>
>
> Greek
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------




----------

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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[Greg Regets]

Each player should declare EVERYTHING there is to know about the
army, other than moral.

If they don't, they will not get the invite to the strip club after
the tournament, to help chew up Greg's expense account. ;-)

g


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd <thresh1642@s...> wrote:
> Not to go onto a tecnhical tangent, but exactly what detail can the
> unaided human eye see at 240 paces?
>
> Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. That's 720 feet away. Thats Two
football
> field lengths. At that disatnce, I would submit you'd see a crowd
of
> guys, possibly identify any banners, maybe a few weapons (swords
and
> spears held aloft and the like), but beyond that I am not sure.
>
> I do think you can distinguish pigs and the like, but would smoke
(if
> any) from a torch be seen on a battlefield thats filled with dust
and
> other debris? I would submit a smart commander might even give a
few
> pigs away toother units, to give the appearence that each unt had
> flaming pigs (or at least the potential to have some) but this is
an
> abstract not addressed by the rules engine IMO.
>
> Todd
>
>
> Chris Bump wrote:
>
> > This is a source of frustration for me. The thought that a unit
could
> > conceal that it was hiding pigs, flamable liquids and open flame
> > (since the
> > zippo was not universally being used by soldiers yet) while still
holding
> > hoplons, and weapons and maintaining unit cohesion is anathama to
me.
> > But if
> > it is to be allowed then how on earth can one argue, with a sense
of
> > seriousness, that a unit could not conceal the fact that it was
concealing
> > darts or for that matter fire lances.
> >
> > As for avalanches, if the LI is in ambush and thus cannot be seen
then
> > simply the declaration that the hill is rocky is enough
intelligence. If
> > the LI is seen and they have such weapons "piled up" so as to
create an
> > avalanche, then this also should be declared as it would be
visible to any
> > unit approaching with a modicum of a sense of concern.
> >
> > These types of paradox within the game frustrate me.
> > Chris
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hrisikos@D... [mailto:hrisikos@D...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:49 PM
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: declaring list rules
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I would like to hear from the group on what they think about
> > this. It
> > > would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are
we saying
> > > that there are a significant number of players who will only
buy
> > certain
> > > lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan
to play in
> > > open comps? Personally I find this strange.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced
*intelligence* has
> > ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you
whatever
> > you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does
the same.
> > With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general,
too.
> >
> > I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I
don't
> > think
> > I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene
(but
> > I will
> > show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky
hill
> > occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you
later on my
> > game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want
to know,
> > like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
> > etc.........
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greek
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
>
> ----------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Todd Schneider]

Yes, I didn't have my rulebook handy and guessed...but
even then 240 paces is 600 feet, which is still a long
ways away to the unadided eye.

Todd

--- JonCleaves@... wrote:


---------------------------------

In a message dated 2/23/2005 17:55:44 Central Standard
Time,
thresh1642@... writes:

Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. >>

A pace is 2.5 feet and you, Todd, as a BrightSword
aficionado, should know
this...lol






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[Kelly Wilkinson]

"Bad Todd!" "Bad!" ;)

JonCleaves@... wrote:
In a message dated 2/23/2005 17:55:44 Central Standard Time,
thresh1642@... writes:

Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. >>

A pace is 2.5 feet and you, Todd, as a BrightSword aficionado, should know
this...lol






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[Chris Bump]

Well first I think that you will find that most historians stipulate that
our ancestors were shorter than we. So a pace would likely be more like 2
feet. Consider also ranged weapons when assigning a finite distance to a
pace. The 240 paces you start with cause me to scratch my head, although I
agree with your assessment that at 500 feet it would be challenging to
determine what a group of men are armed with, obvious exceptions being pole
arms and such. But 240 paces is not the distance at which we declare
weapons in this game. I have no problem with strategems. I would like to
see more FOW in this game, but practicality ussually dictates otherwise. My
point is that I am frustrated at the apparent hypocracy of allowing units to
conceal pigs and flame but not darts or slings. You support my point with
your illustration- if that was your intention than I agree. If otherwise
then not.
Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd [mailto:thresh1642@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 5:51 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: declaring list rules


Not to go onto a tecnhical tangent, but exactly what detail can the
unaided human eye see at 240 paces?

Lets assume a pace is 3 feet. That's 720 feet away. Thats Two football
field lengths. At that disatnce, I would submit you'd see a crowd of
guys, possibly identify any banners, maybe a few weapons (swords and
spears held aloft and the like), but beyond that I am not sure.

I do think you can distinguish pigs and the like, but would smoke (if
any) from a torch be seen on a battlefield thats filled with dust and
other debris? I would submit a smart commander might even give a few
pigs away toother units, to give the appearence that each unt had
flaming pigs (or at least the potential to have some) but this is an
abstract not addressed by the rules engine IMO.

Todd


Chris Bump wrote:

> This is a source of frustration for me. The thought that a unit could
> conceal that it was hiding pigs, flamable liquids and open flame
> (since the
> zippo was not universally being used by soldiers yet) while still
holding
> hoplons, and weapons and maintaining unit cohesion is anathama to me.
> But if
> it is to be allowed then how on earth can one argue, with a sense of
> seriousness, that a unit could not conceal the fact that it was
concealing
> darts or for that matter fire lances.
>
> As for avalanches, if the LI is in ambush and thus cannot be seen then
> simply the declaration that the hill is rocky is enough intelligence.
If
> the LI is seen and they have such weapons "piled up" so as to create an
> avalanche, then this also should be declared as it would be visible to
any
> unit approaching with a modicum of a sense of concern.
>
> These types of paradox within the game frustrate me.
> Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hrisikos@... [mailto:hrisikos@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:49 PM
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: declaring list rules
>
>
>
> >
> > I would like to hear from the group on what they think about
> this. It
> > would not occur to me to not have all the list books, so are we
saying
> > that there are a significant number of players who will only buy
> certain
> > lists books and never buy certain others, even if they plan to play
in
> > open comps? Personally I find this strange.
>
>
> Yes, I too find this unusual, not that such advanced *intelligence*
has
> ever done me much good. As for *declarations*, I will tell you
whatever
> you want to know about my armies as long as everyone else does the
same.
> With most, I'll tell you the names and parents of each general, too.
>
> I ask only two indulgences. When playing Hellenistic Greeks, I don't
> think
> I should have to tell you which unit has the pigs and kerosene (but
> I will
> show you later on my game record sheet), nor whether my sneaky hill
> occupiers have rocks for an avalanche (but I will show you later on my
> game record sheet). Otherwise I'll tell you more than you want to
know,
> like what city Philopoemen was from, when he became strategos,
> etc.........
>
>
>
>
> Greek
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Well first I think that you will find that most historians stipulate that
our ancestors were shorter than we. So a pace would likely be more like 2
feet.>>

In Warrior, of course, a pace is a unit of measurement and is defined in 1.22 as
2.5 feet.

J