Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Chris Bump]

In a message dated 01/08/2001 12:51:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
WarriorRules@egroups.com writes:

<<
<< 2) Assuming the charged unit was eligible to support shoot the
charging unit, would it also be eligible to do so a second time at the
elements that are finishing their charge?>>

Nope, no danger of that. >>

Jon,

Why not, if a unit is frontally charged in successive bounds by a second
unit, we currently allow all elements eligible to shoot and not in contact to
shoot in support, don't we?

This line of thought brings to light a subject often debated out here; weapon
eligibility after first contact. For instance a loose order unit using HTW
recoils its opponent and in the process expands out. In the subsequent bound
of HTH can the new element(s) use the HTW as they are in contact for the
first time or does first contact apply to the entire unit? What of a unit
who was contacted by a smaller unit? Can those elements eligible to fight in
successive bounds, but did not in the first bound use their HTW or are all
such weapons lost at first contact? This question arises with all types of
weapon classes, Jls armed cav who expand out after first contact, do those
elements who were in rear ranks and hence un-able to use their javelins get
those in the next bound of HTH with the same opponent? What of weapon
classes that force troops to become shieldless? Lets say a unit of LMI armed
in the first rank with Jls, Sh and second rank of 2HCW, Jls is forced to
recoil. The unit opts to have the first rank recoil through the rear rank in
effect swapping ranks. In the subsequent bound would the troops armed with
2HCW, Jls count as shieldless even though it is their first contact. What of
the Swiss rule? If the Swiss pike block recoils its opponent and the 2HCT
troops expand out will they fight as shieldless in their first round of
combat, even though it is the unit's second round?

This thought brings up a second issue that has been arising out here, Regular
units being allowed to expand out after combat or to drop back/ expand for
movement purposes. If a 4 element regular unit recoils its opponent is its
only option to expand 2 elements or none in an effort to maintain a regular
formation? What of a 6 element unit of Regulars. If the unit fights in a 3
x 2 formation it, could it ever expand out after combat? If a regular unit
of 8 or 10 elements (like the typical swiss block (8 elements of pike and 2
elements of 2HCT)) was in a single element wide column, could it ever expand
into a 5 x 2 formation? The uneven unit formation prohibition is very
definitely a sticky issue that often arises and seems often too restrictive
of the well trained troops on the board.

Just some thoughts that I have meant to send for too long and let slip.

Chris

These are very good points Chris has raised. I believe an earlier
posting by Jon said that the rest of the charging unit would "step
forward" after combat resolution. This would prevent the defending
units' front elements from support shooting next bound but would also
remove the +2 from LTS and count attacking 2HWC/2HCT as shieldless
for all elements in the next bound regardless of if they "fought" in
the charge or not.

This is the prime reason for my choice of #1, if you lose
the "benefits" of charging and the "first contact" goodies (+2 for
LTS / pike etc) under #2, why charge at an angle at all? The
defender gets to shoot the attacker with everything they have and
then only need to fight one element! After that, ALL other elements
count as having fought in the charge! Chris quite rightly points out
that the elements that did not contact MUST be able to get the "first
contact" bonuses when they first contact, even if it is in the follow-
up phase after recoiling the defending unit. And what if the unit
does not recoil? Assuming that neither the attacker nor defender
recoils, are the units stuck there only contacting by one or two
elements???

As for "uneven" units of regular troops, you gotta give us barbarian
runners a bit of an edge - God knows we get very little otherwise.
prompts / counters / formation changes / H-T-H fatigue etc etc etc ;>

[joncleaves]

Chris and Steve

Whoa, big huskies.

IF we decide on #2 vice #1, we will make patently clear under what conditions
the next bound take place for the guys who were 20p back. No decisions made
yet.

My gut says to respect first contact, but not have it meet the standard of a
'charge'. But that is without in depth study at this point. Bigger Warrior
fish to fry today.
You will be amongst the first 100 guys to know the answer!
Your notes have been recorded for when we look at this.

Jon

My view on selecting Option 1 over Options 2 & 3 is that there should be some
flexibility in the time scale. In a bound where LC can march 1,200 paces and LI
makes it 960 paces, charges should not come to a screeching halt 40 or so paces
away because 15 minutes passed. In allowing the units extra move to make contact
you may be fudging into the next bound by 30 or 40 seconds or you can
rationalize that frenzy or adrenaline (sp?) give them an extra burst to close on
the enemy. Its simple and avoids a couple of paragraphs of how to handle the
units that were held back. Maybe the solution to extra wide bodies is to make
the units that would get an unreasonable extra move fall back (as if passing a
gap) to represent that they just couldn't make the distance. Again, simple and
avoids a lot of extra rules.

What a catch phrase, "A little extra move to avoid a lot of extra rules."

Roger



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