Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

How many people play HK instead of upgrading to EHK? I've always
been interested in the period from the 1st Crusade and up till
Hattin, but I didn't think the early crusader lists were very
competitive. The new Perry line and Black Tree Design Crusaders have
given me the painting bug though (hoped someone would know how they
compare with Essex in size). Is the extra fatigue for charging HK
worth the heavier armor compared to HC? Are EHK really worth the 24
extra points per unit?

Wes

[Kelly Wilkinson]

All you gotta do is look at the chart verses other lancers to answer that
question. It also seems to me that you really need to look at what the points
savings with get you for support troops. If the support troops are cherry then
the savings is fine. You will just need to protect the knights a bit more when
setting up your charges against missile troops! :)

Kelly Wilkinson

lsu90 <lsu90@...> wrote:
How many people play HK instead of upgrading to EHK? I've always
been interested in the period from the 1st Crusade and up till
Hattin, but I didn't think the early crusader lists were very
competitive. The new Perry line and Black Tree Design Crusaders have
given me the painting bug though (hoped someone would know how they
compare with Essex in size). Is the extra fatigue for charging HK
worth the heavier armor compared to HC? Are EHK really worth the 24
extra points per unit?

Wes


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I've played the Normans as 1st crusade a bit. I really like the old list, but I
haven't seen the new hollywarrior list. From the old list there are a few key
points and observations. First the close order bowmen get a JLS so they will be
able to stay in combat for 2 bounds before routing. Use them as a lure, get
your one shot off, then try to be in front of something you can charge them with
(don't forget the advancing standard and supports to keep them eagar for
impetouosity. Second the pesants are a great and cheap way to fight in terrain
with IrgA front Jls/sh, second rank IrgD Jls, and third rank B all LMI; being
cheap you can get a ton of them. If you can get them to 40p and skirmish you
get all three ranks shooting since bow can skirmish from the third rank (may be
only LI LC now though, not sure). the spearmen are standard--by that I mean
substandard--medaevil junk, but handy for missile absorbtion units, so run them
in huge blocks of 12E with a 2 or 3 frontage. I
usually do not upgrade from HC, as the cost/benefit is marginal unless facing a
K based army. The HC will get ripped by missile fire, so save them for when the
enemy shooters are tired. If you do upgrade to K or EHK, make sure you remain
calm and don't send them in at the first sign of trouble. You won't have many
to start with and it is easy to burn them up in short order. Remember, if you
rout the enemy these eagar beavers will be 400p behind enemy lines in 2 bounds,
surrounded by enemy (usually fresh reserves), they will be tired and possibly
disordered, and you want them to explode there rather than rout back passed your
now tired infantry; EHK are more likely to have enough FP left to rout where the
HC will be burned up and die in place. Just 2 quattloos worth of advice
Wanax

kelly wilkinson <jwilkinson62@...> wrote:
All you gotta do is look at the chart verses other lancers to answer that
question. It also seems to me that you really need to look at what the points
savings with get you for support troops. If the support troops are cherry then
the savings is fine. You will just need to protect the knights a bit more when
setting up your charges against missile troops! :)

Kelly Wilkinson

lsu90 <lsu90@...> wrote:
How many people play HK instead of upgrading to EHK? I've always
been interested in the period from the 1st Crusade and up till
Hattin, but I didn't think the early crusader lists were very
competitive. The new Perry line and Black Tree Design Crusaders have
given me the painting bug though (hoped someone would know how they
compare with Essex in size). Is the extra fatigue for charging HK
worth the heavier armor compared to HC? Are EHK really worth the 24
extra points per unit?

Wes


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Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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[scott holder]

Is the extra fatigue for charging HK
worth the heavier armor compared to HC?

>Just run the factors, they are well worth it.

Are EHK really worth the 24
extra points per unit?

>It depends on what you're trying to do with your army and the list. The
Wallachian list is really interesting because it has hordes or Irr A HK and
hordes or great LC. And I'd rather have that than let's say the equivalent horde
of Irr A HC. Of course that's potentially mitigated if you go with HC that has
L, B so as a player, you're forced into a decision as to which method of mounted
strike you prefer (this is more applicable to the Serb list). Therefore, if you
want lots and lots of strike units, HK obviously will give you perhaps 1-2 more
of those in a 1600pt list than lets say L Hungarians with it's SHK/EHK mix.
From a cost savings perspective, you should also consider, if the list allows, a
HK/HC mix. Sure, it has negatives in subsequent bounds of HTH but if you're
looking to maximize the number of units with "X" number of points and want more
bang for the buck at first contact, the mixed unit is something to consider.

scott

Thanks for the reply. I'm an old 7th player and I've read through
Warrior twice and didn't pick up on the JLs fighting in the back rank
even when the + doesn't apply. I find I have overlooked a number of
the differences in the two rulebooks. That does take the advantage
out of EHK. I've got Holy Warrior on order (hopefully it will come
in tomorrow) and I'll take a look at the support troops. I do like
the option to have a large number of Reg troops on the board that the
NASAMW list gives with the Later Crusaders, but I like the look and
history of the 1st and 2nd Crusades better. I guess it may come down
to the question on whether it's easier to lose with an army you love
or play an army that gives more options. I do like the idea of
having HI/MI,Jls,B,Sh troops from the 1st Crusade fast warrior list
prepping the battlefield. Thanks again for running the numbers.

Wes