Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Larry Essick]

An interesting discussion on the WarriorRules list about who has won
NASAMW championships.

I know that Jeff was compiling old Spearpoints. Does he have
information dating from the late 80's or early 90's forward to the
present?

If so, can he either check on NASAMW champions or forward the files to
me so that I can check?

I think that a "Hall of Champions" display at Historicon (made
portable so that it can travel, perhaps) would be very interesting.

Also, how about previous officers of NASAMW? Was there anything
before Kruse? Does anyone have a complete listing of officers since
(from the Jimmy Hill/Mike Pfanenstiel/Scott Holder days thru the
present)?

Both would be interesting things to put onto the web site. Even more
so if we could get pictures somehow.

Larry

[Ewan McNay]

Add to that collection some info on society history - for
instance, who is this fabled Kruse? :)

larryessick@... wrote:

> An interesting discussion on the WarriorRules list about who has won
> NASAMW championships.
>
> I know that Jeff was compiling old Spearpoints. Does he have
> information dating from the late 80's or early 90's forward to the
> present?
>
> If so, can he either check on NASAMW champions or forward the files to
> me so that I can check?
>
> I think that a "Hall of Champions" display at Historicon (made
> portable so that it can travel, perhaps) would be very interesting.
>
> Also, how about previous officers of NASAMW? Was there anything
> before Kruse? Does anyone have a complete listing of officers since
> (from the Jimmy Hill/Mike Pfanenstiel/Scott Holder days thru the
> present)?
>
> Both would be interesting things to put onto the web site. Even more
> so if we could get pictures somehow.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
...Jimmy Hill...

anyone know what happened to Jim? First army I ever borrowed he
loaned me so I could learn 7th. 15mm EIR IIRC. Got my *ss kicked
three weeks from Sunday :)

Wanax

[Ewan McNay]

Memories . My first wargame used 6th - fortunately, I and 7th
arrived on the scene at about the same time - and I watched on
bound 2 as my entire Seleucid army set off impetuously after one
unit of Reg A Roman LC which had charged right into my pikes, no
other Romans even being in sight!

On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an excellent
example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a Mongol on the
"Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units, swarming for flanks
somewhere). Etc. And, yes, skill trumps but matchups are still
important. I have just gotten bored with Seleucids!

Mark, any report from your Romano-Brit / Sassanid matchup?



Wanax Andron wrote:
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
> ...Jimmy Hill...
>
> anyone know what happened to Jim? First army I ever borrowed he
> loaned me so I could learn 7th. 15mm EIR IIRC. Got my *ss kicked
> three weeks from Sunday
>
> Wanax
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan McNay <ewan.mcnay@y...>
wrote:
> Add to that collection some info on society history - for
> instance, who is this fabled Kruse? :)

the Sulla of NASAMW. Legendary founder, chief cook and bottle
washer, then permenant VP. Now rejecting all things NASAMW from his
villa in the country.

Wanax

[Larry Essick]

> Add to that collection some info on society history - for
> instance, who is this fabled Kruse? :)

I've heard that he is 10' tall and once cleared the Great Sahara
Forest. Had a blue ox too, as I heard it. One guy I know said that
he once saw Kruse lasso a cyclone and ride it from Kansas to Oregon,
part of the path became the Oregon Trail.

Of course, that's how *I* heard the story.... :-)

Larry

Kruse Smith. One of the main organizers (along with Johnson Hood) in
getting NASAMW off the ground. He was also the main umpire before Scott
took over. Last seen at a Historican a couple of years ago when they
gave Johnson a retirement party.

Ewan McNay wrote:

> Add to that collection some info on society history - for
> instance, who is this fabled Kruse?
>
> larryessick@... wrote:
>
> > An interesting discussion on the WarriorRules list about who has won
> > NASAMW championships.
> >
> > I know that Jeff was compiling old Spearpoints. Does he have
> > information dating from the late 80's or early 90's forward to the
> > present?
> >
> > If so, can he either check on NASAMW champions or forward the files to
> > me so that I can check?
> >
> > I think that a "Hall of Champions" display at Historicon (made
> > portable so that it can travel, perhaps) would be very interesting.
> >
> > Also, how about previous officers of NASAMW? Was there anything
> > before Kruse? Does anyone have a complete listing of officers since
> > (from the Jimmy Hill/Mike Pfanenstiel/Scott Holder days thru the
> > present)?
> >
> > Both would be interesting things to put onto the web site. Even more
> > so if we could get pictures somehow.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
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>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

--
- Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit
materiari?

Sounds like the kind of dastardly trick I used to pull as the Romans.
My light cav units were small because nobody wanted to volunteer to
serve in them.

6th Edition was full of all sorts of those ridiculous extremes. Single
units charging into the enemy army to get it impetuous, or a couple of
key units in the right place causing an army to break without a shot
being fired.

Ewan McNay wrote:

> Memories . My first wargame used 6th - fortunately, I and 7th
> arrived on the scene at about the same time - and I watched on
> bound 2 as my entire Seleucid army set off impetuously after one
> unit of Reg A Roman LC which had charged right into my pikes, no
> other Romans even being in sight!
>
> On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
> with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an excellent
> example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a Mongol on the
> "Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units, swarming for flanks
> somewhere). Etc. And, yes, skill trumps but matchups are still
> important. I have just gotten bored with Seleucids!
>
> Mark, any report from your Romano-Brit / Sassanid matchup?
>
>
>
> Wanax Andron wrote:
> > --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
> > ...Jimmy Hill...
> >
> > anyone know what happened to Jim? First army I ever borrowed he
> > loaned me so I could learn 7th. 15mm EIR IIRC. Got my *ss kicked
> > three weeks from Sunday
> >
> > Wanax
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129gc4vcf/M=291630.4786521.5933964.1261774/D=groups/S=1\n705059080:HM/EXP=1083180825/A=2072415/R=0/SIG=11thh7ako/*http://www.netflix.com/\nDefault?mqso=60178432&partid=4786521>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

--
- Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit
materiari?

[scott holder]

On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an excellent
example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a Mongol on the
"Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units, swarming for flanks
somewhere).

>I think there's a reason for that. For starters, the gaming community in the
US has, for obvious reasons, been much more scattered and isolated from each
other when compared to the situation in the UK and to a lesser degree, Europe.
Therefore, the communal mindset you reference has a much different dynamic here.

>The Mongols on the "Belgian" model never being seen here is because no one here
every played LIR the way folks in the UK did. The "Belgian" model Mongol army
always struck me as one that was designed to take advantage of the one huge flaw
in the "UK" model of LIR, namely a small number of large-sized (relatively
speaking) units with 1 CinC. Compound this with a tournament (the so-called
"worlds" held at Derby) that had preset terrain, which 9.9 times out of ten
meant some piffly little hill that was nothing more than a speed bump, meant
that "Belgian" model Mongols had the potential to swarm, pin, and pick apart a
"UK" model LIR list better than just about any other army out there--of course
this also assumes a 15mm game since the dynamics in 25mm with both these armies
would be supremely different. Since no one here ever ran LIR (even when they
were "in vogue" which in 7th, wasn't for very long) along those lines, plus we
always rolled for terrain, the "Belgian" model Mongol list simply wasn't useful
against all the other armies they might meet.

scott

[Ewan McNay]

My 'favourite' was watching a UK national final where a wedged
unit of Nikephorian SHC charged along a path involving 2
90-degree turns to clip the extreme corner of a seleucid bow
block. [[And bowfire was being bemoaned back then as being too
powerful, too... plus ca change]]

Second favourite was 6-man legion wedges which when losing 1
figure to shooting, lost the middle man from the rear rank and
remained in 'wedge'.

7th was a breath of fresh air for many - but in fact is now I
think played by fewer in the UK than is 6th (because all the true
dinosaurs stayed with 6th, perhaps, leaving 7th to the more
rules-mobile?)

Bob Andriola wrote:

> Sounds like the kind of dastardly trick I used to pull as the Romans.
> My light cav units were small because nobody wanted to volunteer to
> serve in them.
>
> 6th Edition was full of all sorts of those ridiculous extremes. Single
> units charging into the enemy army to get it impetuous, or a couple of
> key units in the right place causing an army to break without a shot
> being fired.
>
> Ewan McNay wrote:
>
>
>>Memories . My first wargame used 6th - fortunately, I and 7th
>>arrived on the scene at about the same time - and I watched on
>>bound 2 as my entire Seleucid army set off impetuously after one
>>unit of Reg A Roman LC which had charged right into my pikes, no
>>other Romans even being in sight!
>>
>>On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
>>with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an excellent
>>example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a Mongol on the
>>"Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units, swarming for flanks
>>somewhere). Etc. And, yes, skill trumps but matchups are still
>>important. I have just gotten bored with Seleucids!
>>
>>Mark, any report from your Romano-Brit / Sassanid matchup?
>>
>>
>>
>>Wanax Andron wrote:
>>
>>>--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
>>>...Jimmy Hill...
>>>
>>>anyone know what happened to Jim? First army I ever borrowed he
>>>loaned me so I could learn 7th. 15mm EIR IIRC. Got my *ss kicked
>>>three weeks from Sunday
>>>
>>>Wanax
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
>><http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129gc4vcf/M=291630.4786521.5933964.1261774/D=groups/S\n=1705059080:HM/EXP=1083180825/A=2072415/R=0/SIG=11thh7ako/*http://www.netflix.co\nm/Default?mqso=60178432&partid=4786521>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>>
>> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>
>> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>
>

[Ewan McNay]

Holder, Scott wrote:

> On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
> with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an
> excellent example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a
> Mongol on the "Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units,
> swarming for flanks somewhere).
>
>> I think there's a reason for that. For starters, the gaming
>> community in the US has, for obvious reasons, been much more
>> scattered and isolated from each other when compared to the
>> situation in the UK and to a lesser degree, Europe.
>> Therefore, the communal mindset you reference has a much
>> different dynamic here.

True. I really, really miss being able to game twice a week (and
play bridge another 3 nights!)

Of course, marriage and my son may have influenced this also..

>> The Mongols on the "Belgian" model never being seen here is
>> because no one here every played LIR the way folks in the UK
>> did. The "Belgian" model Mongol army always struck me as
>> one that was designed to take advantage of the one huge flaw
>> in the "UK" model of LIR, namely a small number of
>> large-sized (relatively speaking) units with 1 CinC.
>> Compound this with a tournament (the so-called "worlds" held
>> at Derby) that had preset terrain, which 9.9 times out of
>> ten meant some piffly little hill that was nothing more than
>> a speed bump, meant that "Belgian" model Mongols had the
>> potential to swarm, pin, and pick apart a "UK" model LIR
>> list better than just about any other army out there--of
>> course this also assumes a 15mm game since the dynamics in
>> 25mm with both these armies would be supremely different.
>> Since no one here ever ran LIR (even when they were "in
>> vogue" which in 7th, wasn't for very long) along those
>> lines, plus we always rolled for terrain, the "Belgian"
>> model Mongol list simply wasn't useful against all the other armies
> they might meet.

I had actually forgotten the preset terrain (and Scott is right,
it was perceived to be 'unfair' for that preset to be really
significant). Good point.

Steve Herndon had the best wedge move - two wedges of Companions
declared a charge into some bulk of enemy metal, which contercharged.
Counterchargers moved first, and went halfway to the wedges, in the
middle of the table. Wedges then promptly split to either end of the
enemy unit, hitting opposite flanks.

I used to do the Roman wedge thingie. Freaked one guy out once by
forming a 6 man unit of LI slingers into wedge to hit the flank of his
SHC. In retrospect, a really dumb set of rules. Far too "tactical."

Ewan McNay wrote:

> My 'favourite' was watching a UK national final where a wedged
> unit of Nikephorian SHC charged along a path involving 2
> 90-degree turns to clip the extreme corner of a seleucid bow
> block. [[And bowfire was being bemoaned back then as being too
> powerful, too... plus ca change]]
>
> Second favourite was 6-man legion wedges which when losing 1
> figure to shooting, lost the middle man from the rear rank and
> remained in 'wedge'.
>
> 7th was a breath of fresh air for many - but in fact is now I
> think played by fewer in the UK than is 6th (because all the true
> dinosaurs stayed with 6th, perhaps, leaving 7th to the more
> rules-mobile?)
>
> Bob Andriola wrote:
>
> > Sounds like the kind of dastardly trick I used to pull as the Romans.
> > My light cav units were small because nobody wanted to volunteer to
> > serve in them.
> >
> > 6th Edition was full of all sorts of those ridiculous extremes. Single
> > units charging into the enemy army to get it impetuous, or a couple of
> > key units in the right place causing an army to break without a shot
> > being fired.
> >
> > Ewan McNay wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Memories . My first wargame used 6th - fortunately, I and 7th
> >>arrived on the scene at about the same time - and I watched on
> >>bound 2 as my entire Seleucid army set off impetuously after one
> >>unit of Reg A Roman LC which had charged right into my pikes, no
> >>other Romans even being in sight!
> >>
> >>On cycles: there is certainly an element of communal mindset,
> >>with the UK vs. US differences in running LIR being an excellent
> >>example. I don't recall ever seeing, over here, a Mongol on the
> >>"Belgian" model (umpteen 2E Reg B LC units, swarming for flanks
> >>somewhere). Etc. And, yes, skill trumps but matchups are still
> >>important. I have just gotten bored with Seleucids!
> >>
> >>Mark, any report from your Romano-Brit / Sassanid matchup?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Wanax Andron wrote:
> >>
> >>>--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, <larryessick@b...> wrote:
> >>>...Jimmy Hill...
> >>>
> >>>anyone know what happened to Jim? First army I ever borrowed he
> >>>loaned me so I could learn 7th. 15mm EIR IIRC. Got my *ss kicked
> >>>three weeks from Sunday
> >>>
> >>>Wanax
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >>ADVERTISEMENT
>
>><http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129gc4vcf/M=291630.4786521.5933964.1261774/D=groups/S\n=1705059080:HM/EXP=1083180825/A=2072415/R=0/SIG=11thh7ako/*http://www.netflix.co\nm/Default?mqso=60178432&partid=4786521
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129gc4vcf/M=291630.4786521.5933964.1261774/D=groups/S=1\n705059080:HM/EXP=1083180825/A=2072415/R=0/SIG=11thh7ako/*http://www.netflix.com/\nDefault?mqso=60178432&partid=4786521>>
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
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> >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

--
- Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit
materiari?

[Ewan McNay]

Bob Andriola wrote:
> Steve Herndon had the best wedge move - two wedges of Companions
> declared a charge into some bulk of enemy metal, which contercharged.
> Counterchargers moved first, and went halfway to the wedges, in the
> middle of the table. Wedges then promptly split to either end of the
> enemy unit, hitting opposite flanks.
>
> I used to do the Roman wedge thingie. Freaked one guy out once by
> forming a 6 man unit of LI slingers into wedge to hit the flank of his
> SHC.

Yeah, OK, you win .