Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Greg Regets]

>> ... And I'd take the MI in bigger blocks.  They are just there to close
space anyway, so you tempt someone just rolling them over at 4E or 6E and you
save points besides.


Just so everyone doesn't think Jon and I agree all the sudden , I do not
think the MI is just there to "close space anyway", and as a result, do not
feel you should take them in larger blocks.

Michael Forbes has been using these guys in 16's for a wide variety of
purposes, and they have helped him turn his one-dimensional Carolingian army
into a stronger group. Just the other day, I watched him use his 16's to go
after pikes, and withstood them long enough for his lancers to rout all the
units surrounding the pikes. Several months ago, when playing Carthaginians, he
actually moved them opposite the elephants and took the charge. They lost the
fight, but armed with JLS, they did enough damage to avoided the one bound
kill, which gave Mike just long enough for his lancers to give major love to
the Spaniards and Celtiberians. Waver tests were missed by the elephants, and
that was that.

The bigger units will help you and work better against the armies you already
match up well against. The smaller units will give you help against your bad
matchups ... in my opinion.

The question is, do you want to accentuate the positive, or cover the negative?

G

P.S. This is just my opinion, and this is a wonderful
discussion!

[Ewan McNay]

Boyd's list:
CNC +5 HC
sub +5 HC
5 x 2E Irg A/B HC L/sh
3x 4E IrgC MI J/sh
6E IrgC MI B
6E IrgC LHI J/sh
4E IrgC LC J/sh
8E IrgC LI SS/CB
4E IrgE LMI IPW

15 units at 1200pt
******************

Not bad. The HC will give you a chance against many opponents; the
lights are few in number and poor in quality (those LI are hugely
dubious) but might just serve to push forward enough to get the HC
close. I'd sacrifice a MI unit to get a few more or better lights. The
LHI can hold terrain for a long time, and they plus MI B and a MI JLS
unit should hold up whichever flank you refuse for sufficient time. The
peasants should probably try to charge anything that is irregular and
draw it forward, but I'm not convinced that they are worth even their
minimal points. Still, this is a better list that the others you've
been suggesting .

******************

The other desire was to 'win with junk'. Depends how you define junk.
If D class, take a vast number of pikes and trundle. If just troops
thought of as bad... well, difficult because they'll likely be bad (!)
but try Medieval Indian. Ottoman Turk as IrrD MC B is an alternative
here. Or Early Libyan .

Thanks for the input Ewan. The LI are just there to keep missiles off the HC
until within strike range...usually 2 bounds with me, but I'll attempt
moderation in that area :)

I have two thoughts. 1 is to ditch the element attached to the CNC and use him
as a router interceptor and put every unit in the subgeneral's command. 2 is to
use the points for the MI and the HC element to buy a cloud of LI. However on
thought 2 this tends to take me back to where I have always been with normans
and it doesn't allow for any battlefield control to constantly try to react with
LI and it surrenders much initiative.

What are your thought on this?

Ewan <ewan.mcnay@...> wrote:
Boyd's list:
CNC +5 HC
sub +5 HC
5 x 2E Irg A/B HC L/sh
3x 4E IrgC MI J/sh
6E IrgC MI B
6E IrgC LHI J/sh
4E IrgC LC J/sh
8E IrgC LI SS/CB
4E IrgE LMI IPW

15 units at 1200pt
******************

Not bad. The HC will give you a chance against many opponents; the
lights are few in number and poor in quality (those LI are hugely
dubious) but might just serve to push forward enough to get the HC
close. I'd sacrifice a MI unit to get a few more or better lights. The
LHI can hold terrain for a long time, and they plus MI B and a MI JLS
unit should hold up whichever flank you refuse for sufficient time. The
peasants should probably try to charge anything that is irregular and
draw it forward, but I'm not convinced that they are worth even their
minimal points. Still, this is a better list that the others you've
been suggesting .

******************

The other desire was to 'win with junk'. Depends how you define junk.
If D class, take a vast number of pikes and trundle. If just troops
thought of as bad... well, difficult because they'll likely be bad (!)
but try Medieval Indian. Ottoman Turk as IrrD MC B is an alternative
here. Or Early Libyan .

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Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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Here is the final draft of the 1200pt Norman army based upon list member input:

CNC +2 HC
sub +5 HC
5 x 2E Irg A/B HC L/sh
3 x 4E IrgC MI J/sh
6E IrgC LI J/sh

6E IrgC LHI J/sh
6E IrgC LC J/sh
8E IrgC LI SS/CB
4E IrgE LMI IPW

15 units at 1204pt



Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/10/2003 10:46:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> The LI are just there to keep missiles off the HC until within strike
range...>>

The issue there is that with many open tourney opponents you have the choice of
either fighting either El and missile-armed foot or SHK and missile armed foot
(or me with missile-armed foot and missile-armed foot...lol). You can't 'keep
the missiles off' if the only thing you can charge is armed with them.

And I'd take the MI in bigger blocks. They are just there to close space
anyway, so you tempt someone just rolling them over at 4E or 6E and you save
points besides.

J

Well the trade off with playing Han is that the pesants are now thrust into the
front to burn off a couple of shooting fatigues, then the LI help absorb some
more, then finally the MI get you to a point one of your units is shooting
tired, THEN the HC try there hand. At that point it is roll up or loose anyway
:)

SHK is exactly where I want to pesants, LI, and MI B. For EL, well...the LHI
would be my counter, but i tend to avoid the El and focus on the remainder. Not
so easy with Burmese and early VC but those with tons of compulsory crap foot
are easier.

If I go back to 2 6E blocks of MI, then I essentially have the list I've been
playing for years now: minimum 12E HC, 2x6E MI, 6E LHI, swarms of LI, and some
LC. The irregular close order are just too clumsy to manuver reactively without
creating gaps, so I'll at least try the smaller units for now. Point taken
though.

Wanax

JonCleaves@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/10/2003 10:46:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> The LI are just there to keep missiles off the HC until within strike
range...>>

The issue there is that with many open tourney opponents you have the choice of
either fighting either El and missile-armed foot or SHK and missile armed foot
(or me with missile-armed foot and missile-armed foot...lol). You can't 'keep
the missiles off' if the only thing you can charge is armed with them.

And I'd take the MI in bigger blocks. They are just there to close space
anyway, so you tempt someone just rolling them over at 4E or 6E and you save
points besides.

J

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Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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