Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Mark Stone]

Jon,

I've been think a bit about the vulnerabilities of skirmishers to shooting, and
thinking some about the ramifications of this clarification:

"11.1 (Pg 73) If an eligible body can choose to recall under this case but the
recall move would place it closer to an enemy body, it takes a waver test
instead."

I may have several questions, but let me start with the simplest one: read
literally, the above would seem to apply to _any_ enemy body, known or unknown,
visible or not. Is that really the intention? Let me give you an extreme
example:

At the far right end of my battle line I put 2 CPF in prep on a unit of LI.
Across 7 feet of table frontage (assume 25mm scale) the battle line is
perfectly straight, and the enemy LI in question has its frontage on that
battle line. At the extreme left end of the battle line I have an LC unit that
is slightly ahead of the battle line, and slightly bending back the enemy line.

Now, it's a matter of simple geometry that if the enemy LI unit were to make a
recall move, it would end up some small distance closer to my LC unit that is
7+ feet away. Must the LI therefore waver test?

Not to presume, but perhaps "visible enemy body" or "visible enemy body within
240p" is the intent here?


-Mark Stone

[joncleaves]

<<"11.1 (Pg 73) If an eligible body can choose to recall under this case but the
recall move would place it closer to an enemy body, it takes a waver test
instead."

I may have several questions, but let me start with the simplest one: read
literally, the above would seem to apply to _any_ enemy body, known or unknown,
visible or not. Is that really the intention? Let me give you an extreme
example:

At the far right end of my battle line I put 2 CPF in prep on a unit of LI.
Across 7 feet of table frontage (assume 25mm scale) the battle line is
perfectly straight, and the enemy LI in question has its frontage on that
battle line. At the extreme left end of the battle line I have an LC unit that
is slightly ahead of the battle line, and slightly bending back the enemy line.

Now, it's a matter of simple geometry that if the enemy LI unit were to make a
recall move, it would end up some small distance closer to my LC unit that is
7+ feet away. Must the LI therefore waver test?

Not to presume, but perhaps "visible enemy body" or "visible enemy body within
240p" is the intent here?>>

Good point. Known within 240p will work. I will so clarify.

J


-Mark Stone

[Mark Stone]

--- On March 3 I said: ---

>>"11.1 (Pg 73) If an eligible body can choose to recall under this case but the
>> recall move would place it closer to an enemy body, it takes a waver test
>> instead."
>>
>> Not to presume, but perhaps "visible enemy body" or "visible enemy body
within
>> 240p" is the intent here?>>

--- To which Jon replied: ---

>
> Good point. Known within 240p will work. I will so clarify.
>

OK, to follow up on this I've uploaded a file to the "Rules Questions" folder
for the group; the file is called "recall_or_test.ppt". Here's the associated
context and question:

Red A and Red B are 6 stand units of LI JLS,Sh 3 wide and 2 deep. Blue C and
Blue D (and the other blue unit) are 6 stand units of LI B 3 wide and 2 deep.
Blue C has just taken 2 CPF in prep shooting from javelin fire, courtesy of Red
A. It is now facing the "test or recall choice".

Should Blue C elect to recall, it will both start and end its recall move within
240p of a known enemy body, namely Red B. Lines 1 and 2 indicate the
hypothetical before and after distances of such a recall move, assuming Blue
rolls a normal distance for its recall move. Two points to note, and then the
question. First, Blue C clearly ends up closer to Red B. Second, this is a
generalizable result, as the base of a right trianlge (line 2) is, by
definition, always shorter than the hypoteneus (line 1).

So the question: Is Blue C therefore ineligible to recall, and thus forced to
take a waver test?

A couple of comments on this before you answer: First, I'm not sure that
requiring the waver test in this situation is such a bad thing. Getting your
line bent back is generally a negative, should have consequences, and those
consequences should be most acutely felt at the hinge. Having said that, I'd
wager the vast majority of folks on this list have _not_ being playing recalls
from shooting this way.


-Mark Stone

[joncleaves]

>
> OK, to follow up on this I've uploaded a file to the "Rules
Questions" folder
> for the group; the file is called "recall_or_test.ppt". Here's the
associated
> context and question:
>
> Red A and Red B are 6 stand units of LI JLS,Sh 3 wide and 2 deep.
Blue C and
> Blue D (and the other blue unit) are 6 stand units of LI B 3 wide
and 2 deep.
> Blue C has just taken 2 CPF in prep shooting from javelin fire,
courtesy of Red
> A. It is now facing the "test or recall choice".
>
> Should Blue C elect to recall, it will both start and end its
recall move within
> 240p of a known enemy body, namely Red B. Lines 1 and 2 indicate
the
> hypothetical before and after distances of such a recall move,
assuming Blue
> rolls a normal distance for its recall move. Two points to note,
and then the
> question. First, Blue C clearly ends up closer to Red B. Second,
this is a
> generalizable result, as the base of a right trianlge (line 2) is,
by
> definition, always shorter than the hypoteneus (line 1).
>
> So the question: Is Blue C therefore ineligible to recall, and
thus forced to
> take a waver test?
>
> A couple of comments on this before you answer: First, I'm not
sure that
> requiring the waver test in this situation is such a bad thing.
Getting your
> line bent back is generally a negative, should have consequences,
and those
> consequences should be most acutely felt at the hinge. Having said
that, I'd
> wager the vast majority of folks on this list have _not_ being
playing recalls
> from shooting this way.>>

The intent is certainly - as it is with much in Warrior - to make
being flanked and surrounded a bad thing. So, my first reaction is
that this is all fine.

The intent of the rule is to not allow a recalling body to drive
right back next to an enemy unit driectly behind it. I think you
bring up an extreme case where we are right on the border of that
intent and a more 'normal' situation. I will give it some thought,
but for now we'll just leave it at known within 240p.

J