Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Doug]

I have a feeling that personal instruction is really the only way to
get someone up to speed. Reading Warrior on my own hasn't given me
more of a clue than I ever got by reading 7th edition on my own.

My buddy & I tried several FW bronze age games but just don't "get"
the way the rules are supposed to be used to model the behavior of
these chariots. Are we supposed to shoot each other up then charge,
or charge quickly, or use the infantry to screen, etc etc.

He got tired of trying to figure it out by playing each game a
different way, so we haven't played since.

A while back there were some threads WRT using the Romans, but they
simply wound up confusing me because of the multiple viewpoints and
cross-topic replies.

The recent thread on Japanese ashigaru in a three element column
comes to mind as something that gave me absolutely no useful
information and instead created confusion where previously I had no
thoughts at all. No thoughts, no worries... My Dixon Japanese have
a very pretty paint job and I'll play DBx with them so I can get some
enjoyment out of them.

Warrior is all about the "interaction" of things, but there are so
many permutations that its not fun unless you have a clue. Once you
have a clue, the freedom is vast. Or so I am given to understand...

You need to create something that a person can read on his own that
will give him a clue; enough of a clue to set up some units that work
with each other and experience some successful "interaction."

Well written, in depth primers on historical ways and non-historical
successful ways of running various armies? Maybe, if couched in terms
of making clear how Choice X interects with Choice Y in a generic way.

Specific tactical tips? Eg, "1. How to use lights to screen somebody
from missile fire." Then "2. How to push away a screen of lights so
you can shoot what they are screening." Then "3. Countermeasures for
keeping your light screen in place." etc etc.

Video tape is awfully cheap... set up a totally staged demo where
each player puts his units in place saying "these are here to screeen
them, and this is why it works" followed by the other side setting
down a unit and saying "here's how I'm going to try to counteract
that." ???

Can you video something that would be the equivalent of two competent
players doing a simple game purely for the benefit of a newbie
watching them, explaining all their tactics, with no weird suprises
and striving for historical accuracy?

*****
Another problem with attracting people to Warrior is the in-speak
used when grognards explain their decisions by describing "the
numbers."... For example, ' Don't run the tweetybird LHI Sh JLS
pointybeak unit without at least 38 figures because against the LHI
+1 you take 3+1 CPF on an even roll but if they roll up..."


--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at
present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come
in it's turn, but it will be at a remote period." James Madison, 15
March 1798 (_Papers of J.M._ vol 12, p.14; LC call no. JK.111.M24)

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 8/15/2002 00:43:15 Central Daylight Time,
rockd@... writes:


> Specific tactical tips? Eg, "1. How to use lights to screen somebody
> from missile fire." Then "2. How to push away a screen of lights so
> you can shoot what they are screening." Then "3. Countermeasures for
> keeping your light screen in place." etc etc.
>

You are, of course, not talking rules but tactics. But yes, I will add these
to the list of subjects for my Warrior clinic articles.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

>In a message dated 8/15/2002 00:43:15 Central Daylight Time,
>rockd@... writes:
>
>
>> Specific tactical tips? Eg, "1. How to use lights to screen somebody
>> from missile fire." Then "2. How to push away a screen of lights so
>> you can shoot what they are screening." Then "3. Countermeasures for
>> keeping your light screen in place." etc etc.
>>
>
>You are, of course, not talking rules but tactics. But yes, I will add these
>to the list of subjects for my Warrior clinic articles.


Exactly. The mechanics are quite clear, but putting them together in
an effective way is up to the user, and I think that two people
playing in isolation will never work it out in more than a
rudimentary way.

[Dave Smith]

Well, yes and no. You need to understand the rules and the concepts
before you can apply any kind of tactics to your game. I may have a
strategy that in my minds eye is perfectly doable, from a rules
standpoint would not be allowed, hence the strategy (or tactics)
would be erroneous.

I think some of the perception problems arise from the last decade
movement to simpler, faster, shorter gaming. Now, when you roll out
the charts as starting adding factors, etc., people will do a mental
switch off with you. That's what happened at my house with a couple
of my gaming buddies that play WAB, DBA, and Days of Knights. The
mental start-up costs were too much for them to pay. Neither are
playing now, nor do they have any interest. And Jon, was the
professor that day, to boot. I know that these rules aren't for
everyone, and the complexity mountain may be a tough climb.


Dave



--- In WarriorRules@y..., Doug <rockd@p...> wrote:
> >In a message dated 8/15/2002 00:43:15 Central Daylight Time,
> >rockd@p... writes:
> >
> >
> >> Specific tactical tips? Eg, "1. How to use lights to screen
somebody
> >> from missile fire." Then "2. How to push away a screen of
lights so
> >> you can shoot what they are screening." Then "3.
Countermeasures for
> >> keeping your light screen in place." etc etc.
> >>
> >
> >You are, of course, not talking rules but tactics. But yes, I
will add these
> >to the list of subjects for my Warrior clinic articles.
>
>
> Exactly. The mechanics are quite clear, but putting them together
in
> an effective way is up to the user, and I think that two people
> playing in isolation will never work it out in more than a
> rudimentary way.

[Doug]

>mental start-up costs were too much for them to pay. Neither are
>playing now, nor do they have any interest. And Jon, was the
>professor that day, to boot. I know that these rules aren't for
>everyone, and the complexity mountain may be a tough climb.
>Dave

Absolutely. I'm still not convinced that it would be worthwhile for
me to go thru the process again. I wasted countless hours trying to
learn the mechanics of 7th, only when I showed up at a con, to find
that everything had changed. Never had anything left for learning
how to apply the mechanics.

I think new players should be introduced from the point of view of
"applied tactics" with the mechanics used to achieve them as a
secondary point.
--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at
present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come
in it's turn, but it will be at a remote period." James Madison, 15
March 1798 (_Papers of J.M._ vol 12, p.14; LC call no. JK.111.M24)