Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Thanks Sven



I can't draw worth a damn, but I'll sure give it a try. We do know for a fact
that Axe & spear worked together from period descriptions. My friends jokingly
call my style the "Weasel Dance" since I bob & weave a lot. If you look at old
movies of Cassius Clay boxing you'll see an example of what I'm talking about.
He powers his blows from the legs & hips. after all the glut's are the biggest &
strongest muscle group in the body from what I've been told.


----- Original Message -----
From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH
To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/24/2004 11:31:21 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question


That sounds very interesting, Sven. May you send me any diagrams that explain
those blows?
Emilio
P.D I have a two handed sword manual derived from italian and german XV century
originals, and several blows are from behind the head, or from the side of the
body.





Quite easily actually if both fighters know the basics. I've been doing Medieval
combat for over 45 years. The issue is that you are visualizing the axeman using
his weapon as if he was chopping wood. Most people do that huge baseball bat
type swing because they don't understand body mechanics. Yes it is powerful, but
it's also very slow & leaves you defenseless. In actuallity you keep the axe in
front of you so that you can sweep block, thrust with the beard & use hip
rotations & hip-rocks to supply the power for your swings. This allows your axe
to rise vertically or side to side but never behind the front of your body yet
still give you massive power for blows & still keep it in front of you for a
block. Another trick it to fulcrum the handle in & to quickly tighten the arc,
much like a rock on the string speeds up & hits harder when your spinning it
around then shorten the string.

The weight of the head also contributes to the force of the blow. Case in
point. Every year for the past 32 years I've hosted a feast on (or really near)
November 11th for the men I served with. I like to make it a more traditional
Viking Age type feast, with Wild Boar, Elk, etc. That's a lot of people & a lot
of food & some time it's difficult to get the third boar haunch into the roaster
with out shortening it somehow. Boars legs are really thick & heavy boned. Being
silly the first time, I decided to cover a stump with foil, place the haunch on
it & use my two handed Danish axe on it. I started with about a 35 degree arc
swing, thinking that I could open up to the bone so I would have a good aim to
strike the bone square. Damn if I didn't go thru the entire haunch & almost 2
inches into the stump using the above mentioned techniques. I almost felt the
blow was light compared to how I usually hit. From then on it's always been a
race amongst my fr!
!
iends to be the one who gets to axe the haunch each year.

Admittedly well padded armour makes a difference than bare flesh, but a boar
bone is really durable stuff & probably equivelent to armour. I would say that
the techniques above would enable axe & spearmen to fight in ranks.

manga takk,
Sven

----- Original Message -----
From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH
To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/24/2004 10:38:46 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question


I can not understand how a warrior with a spear can fight in a second rank
behind a man with a heavy sword or axe, without being hurt by the swinging axe!!
Axeman fight individually, and spearman in group. So I say that they can not.
Emilio Moskowich
Spain


One question becomes many!

So 1st question again:
If a unit is armed as follows:

Front Rank entirely 2hcw
Second Rank entirely LTS

And is steady and non-impetuous.
And is receiving a charge.

Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?

+1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
-2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)

2nd question...
My reading of the rules indicates the LTS in the first question would fight
at 1/2 figs from the second rank. Correct?

3rd question...
Is the answer to question 1 the same if the second rank is armed with P?

4th question...
My reading of the rules indicates the P (in question 3) would fight at full
figs from the second rank. Correct?

5th question...LIST QUESTION - Feudal Warrior, Holy Roman Imperial List #25,
pg 45.
Under LATE. Replace any reg LTS-armed foot with P.
Is it then acceptable for the unit in question 1 to swap the LTS in the
second rank with P?

Thanks!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Becker [mailto:JonBecker@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:25 AM
To: WarriorRules
Subject: [WarriorRules] Rules Question



Hello!

If a unit is armed as follows:

Front Rank entirely 2hcw
Second Rank entirely LTS

And is steady and non-impetuous.
And is receiving a charge.

Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?

+1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
-2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)

Thanks!





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[joncleaves]

<<One question becomes many!

So 1st question again:
If a unit is armed as follows:

Front Rank entirely 2hcw
Second Rank entirely LTS

And is steady and non-impetuous.
And is receiving a charge.

Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?

+1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
-2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)>>

Neither applies in this case. The relevant rule is the clarification for 1.26
about 'facing', quoted here:

"1.261 (Pg 6) Add: Facing (or faced by) a weapon. An element and any friendly
elements directly behind it in contact with the front of an enemy element are
said to be ‘facing’ or ‘faced by’ the weapons possessed by that enemy
element. This concept is used primarily in 9.4."

The enemy would not be touching the front of the LTS element and therefore are
not 'facing' that weapon.

The LTS is also not fighting (the only weapon that ever fights from a second
rank behind a *different* weapon is JLS).

<<2nd question...
My reading of the rules indicates the LTS in the first question would fight
at 1/2 figs from the second rank. Correct?>>

Nope. The rule is 9.22 - and remember to read the very first sentence of 9.22,
not just the part about LTS....

<<3rd question...
Is the answer to question 1 the same if the second rank is armed with P?>>

Yes. No P behind non-P....

<<4th question...
My reading of the rules indicates the P (in question 3) would fight at full
figs from the second rank. Correct?>>

Nope, but by now you know the deal...lol

<<5th question...LIST QUESTION - Feudal Warrior, Holy Roman Imperial List #25,
pg 45.
Under LATE. Replace any reg LTS-armed foot with P.
Is it then acceptable for the unit in question 1 to swap the LTS in the
second rank with P?>>

Even if it were possible Jon, it wouldn't be smart....

Jon

[Don Coon]

Another beautiful technique that an aweman and a spearman can execute together
is to have the axeman take a short vertical chop on the top of the opponents
shield using the axehead like a hook. The axeman then pulls towards himself
which causes the shield to dip and the spearman now plows the exposed opponent.
It is a quick move that keeps the axe always in front of the weilder (important
as was already pointed out). Patrick and I have done this move many times
succesfully in mock combat (we only have 11 years experiance not the awesome 45!
that you have).

Don
>
> From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH <escalat@...>
> Date: 2004/11/24 Wed PM 07:26:48 GMT
> To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
> That sounds very interesting, Sven. May you send me any diagrams that explain
those blows?
> Emilio
> P.D I have a two handed sword manual derived from italian and german XV
century originals, and several blows are from behind the head, or from the side
of the body.
>
> Quite easily actually if both fighters know the basics. I've been doing
Medieval combat for over 45 years. The issue is that you are visualizing the
axeman using his weapon as if he was chopping wood. Most people do that huge
baseball bat type swing because they don't understand body mechanics. Yes it is
powerful, but it's also very slow & leaves you defenseless. In actuallity you
keep the axe in front of you so that you can sweep block, thrust with the beard
& use hip rotations & hip-rocks to supply the power for your swings. This allows
your axe to rise vertically or side to side but never behind the front of your
body yet still give you massive power for blows & still keep it in front of you
for a block. Another trick it to fulcrum the handle in & to quickly tighten the
arc, much like a rock on the string speeds up & hits harder when your spinning
it around then shorten the string.
>
> The weight of the head also contributes to the force of the blow. Case in
point. Every year for the past 32 years I've hosted a feast on (or really near)
November 11th for the men I served with. I like to make it a more traditional
Viking Age type feast, with Wild Boar, Elk, etc. That's a lot of people & a lot
of food & some time it's difficult to get the third boar haunch into the roaster
with out shortening it somehow. Boars legs are really thick & heavy boned. Being
silly the first time, I decided to cover a stump with foil, place the haunch on
it & use my two handed Danish axe on it. I started with about a 35 degree arc
swing, thinking that I could open up to the bone so I would have a good aim to
strike the bone square. Damn if I didn't go thru the entire haunch & almost 2
inches into the stump using the above mentioned techniques. I almost felt the
blow was light compared to how I usually hit. From then on it's always been a
race amongst my fr!
> iends to be the one who gets to axe the haunch each year.
>
> Admittedly well padded armour makes a difference than bare flesh, but a boar
bone is really durable stuff & probably equivelent to armour. I would say that
the techniques above would enable axe & spearmen to fight in ranks.
>
> manga takk,
> Sven
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH
> To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 11/24/2004 10:38:46 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
> I can not understand how a warrior with a spear can fight in a second rank
behind a man with a heavy sword or axe, without being hurt by the swinging axe!!
Axeman fight individually, and spearman in group. So I say that they can not.
> Emilio Moskowich
> Spain
>
>
> One question becomes many!
>
> So 1st question again:
> If a unit is armed as follows:
>
> Front Rank entirely 2hcw
> Second Rank entirely LTS
>
> And is steady and non-impetuous.
> And is receiving a charge.
>
> Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?
>
> +1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
> -2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)
>
> 2nd question...
> My reading of the rules indicates the LTS in the first question would fight
> at 1/2 figs from the second rank. Correct?
>
> 3rd question...
> Is the answer to question 1 the same if the second rank is armed with P?
>
> 4th question...
> My reading of the rules indicates the P (in question 3) would fight at full
> figs from the second rank. Correct?
>
> 5th question...LIST QUESTION - Feudal Warrior, Holy Roman Imperial List #25,
> pg 45.
> Under LATE. Replace any reg LTS-armed foot with P.
> Is it then acceptable for the unit in question 1 to swap the LTS in the
> second rank with P?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Becker [mailto:JonBecker@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:25 AM
> To: WarriorRules
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
>
> Hello!
>
> If a unit is armed as follows:
>
> Front Rank entirely 2hcw
> Second Rank entirely LTS
>
> And is steady and non-impetuous.
> And is receiving a charge.
>
> Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?
>
> +1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
> -2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
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Spot on! That's precisely what I'm talking about, but what Emilo was trying to
grasp was how the axe doesn't hit the spearman (the Gar-Dana in Beowulf terms).
My guess is that you are in the SCA.


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/25/2004 6:17:40 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question


Another beautiful technique that an aweman and a spearman can execute together
is to have the axeman take a short vertical chop on the top of the opponents
shield using the axehead like a hook. The axeman then pulls towards himself
which causes the shield to dip and the spearman now plows the exposed opponent.
It is a quick move that keeps the axe always in front of the weilder (important
as was already pointed out). Patrick and I have done this move many times
succesfully in mock combat (we only have 11 years experiance not the awesome 45!
that you have).

Don
>
> From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH <escalat@...>
> Date: 2004/11/24 Wed PM 07:26:48 GMT
> To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
> That sounds very interesting, Sven. May you send me any diagrams that explain
those blows?
> Emilio
> P.D I have a two handed sword manual derived from italian and german XV
century originals, and several blows are from behind the head, or from the side
of the body.
>
> Quite easily actually if both fighters know the basics. I've been doing
Medieval combat for over 45 years. The issue is that you are visualizing the
axeman using his weapon as if he was chopping wood. Most people do that huge
baseball bat type swing because they don't understand body mechanics. Yes it is
powerful, but it's also very slow & leaves you defenseless. In actuallity you
keep the axe in front of you so that you can sweep block, thrust with the beard
& use hip rotations & hip-rocks to supply the power for your swings. This allows
your axe to rise vertically or side to side but never behind the front of your
body yet still give you massive power for blows & still keep it in front of you
for a block. Another trick it to fulcrum the handle in & to quickly tighten the
arc, much like a rock on the string speeds up & hits harder when your spinning
it around then shorten the string.
>
> The weight of the head also contributes to the force of the blow. Case in
point. Every year for the past 32 years I've hosted a feast on (or really near)
November 11th for the men I served with. I like to make it a more traditional
Viking Age type feast, with Wild Boar, Elk, etc. That's a lot of people & a lot
of food & some time it's difficult to get the third boar haunch into the roaster
with out shortening it somehow. Boars legs are really thick & heavy boned. Being
silly the first time, I decided to cover a stump with foil, place the haunch on
it & use my two handed Danish axe on it. I started with about a 35 degree arc
swing, thinking that I could open up to the bone so I would have a good aim to
strike the bone square. Damn if I didn't go thru the entire haunch & almost 2
inches into the stump using the above mentioned techniques. I almost felt the
blow was light compared to how I usually hit. From then on it's always been a
race amongst my fr!
> iends to be the one who gets to axe the haunch each year.
>
> Admittedly well padded armour makes a difference than bare flesh, but a boar
bone is really durable stuff & probably equivelent to armour. I would say that
the techniques above would enable axe & spearmen to fight in ranks.
>
> manga takk,
> Sven
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EMILIO MOSKOWICH
> To: warriorrules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 11/24/2004 10:38:46 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
> I can not understand how a warrior with a spear can fight in a second rank
behind a man with a heavy sword or axe, without being hurt by the swinging axe!!
Axeman fight individually, and spearman in group. So I say that they can not.
> Emilio Moskowich
> Spain
>
>
> One question becomes many!
>
> So 1st question again:
> If a unit is armed as follows:
>
> Front Rank entirely 2hcw
> Second Rank entirely LTS
>
> And is steady and non-impetuous.
> And is receiving a charge.
>
> Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?
>
> +1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
> -2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)
>
> 2nd question...
> My reading of the rules indicates the LTS in the first question would fight
> at 1/2 figs from the second rank. Correct?
>
> 3rd question...
> Is the answer to question 1 the same if the second rank is armed with P?
>
> 4th question...
> My reading of the rules indicates the P (in question 3) would fight at full
> figs from the second rank. Correct?
>
> 5th question...LIST QUESTION - Feudal Warrior, Holy Roman Imperial List #25,
> pg 45.
> Under LATE. Replace any reg LTS-armed foot with P.
> Is it then acceptable for the unit in question 1 to swap the LTS in the
> second rank with P?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Becker [mailto:JonBecker@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:25 AM
> To: WarriorRules
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Rules Question
>
>
>
> Hello!
>
> If a unit is armed as follows:
>
> Front Rank entirely 2hcw
> Second Rank entirely LTS
>
> And is steady and non-impetuous.
> And is receiving a charge.
>
> Do the hand-to-hand tactical factors following apply?
>
> +1 steady P/LTS receiving an impetuous mounted charge
> -2 facing steady, non-impetuous P or LTS (exc. 9.42)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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>
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> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarriorRules/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Coon]

Perfect guess.

> Spot on! That's precisely what I'm talking about, but what Emilo was
trying to grasp was how the axe doesn't hit the spearman (the Gar-Dana in
Beowulf terms). My guess is that you are in the SCA.
>
> Another beautiful technique that an axeman and a spearman can execute
together is to have the axeman take a short vertical chop on the top of the
opponents shield using the axehead like a hook. The axeman then pulls
towards himself which causes the shield to dip and the spearman now plows
the exposed opponent. It is a quick move that keeps the axe always in front
of the weilder (important as was already pointed out). Patrick and I have
done this move many times succesfully in mock combat (we only have 11 years
experience not the awesome 45! that you have).
>
> Don
> >
> > That sounds very interesting, Sven. May you send me any diagrams that
explain those blows?
> > Emilio
> > P.D I have a two handed sword manual derived from italian and german XV
century originals, and several blows are from behind the head, or from the
side of the body.
> >
> > Quite easily actually if both fighters know the basics. I've been doing
Medieval combat for over 45 years. The issue is that you are visualizing the
axeman using his weapon as if he was chopping wood. Most people do that huge
baseball bat type swing because they don't understand body mechanics. Yes it
is powerful, but it's also very slow & leaves you defenseless. In actuallity
you keep the axe in front of you so that you can sweep block, thrust with
the beard & use hip rotations & hip-rocks to supply the power for your
swings. This allows your axe to rise vertically or side to side but never
behind the front of your body yet still give you massive power for blows &
still keep it in front of you for a block. Another trick it to fulcrum the
handle in & to quickly tighten the arc, much like a rock on the string
speeds up & hits harder when your spinning it around then shorten the
string.
> >
> > The weight of the head also contributes to the force of the blow. Case
in point. Every year for the past 32 years I've hosted a feast on (or really
near) November 11th for the men I served with. I like to make it a more
traditional Viking Age type feast, with Wild Boar, Elk, etc. That's a lot of
people & a lot of food & some time it's difficult to get the third boar
haunch into the roaster with out shortening it somehow. Boars legs are
really thick & heavy boned. Being silly the first time, I decided to cover a
stump with foil, place the haunch on it & use my two handed Danish axe on
it. I started with about a 35 degree arc swing, thinking that I could open
up to the bone so I would have a good aim to strike the bone square. Damn if
I didn't go thru the entire haunch & almost 2 inches into the stump using
the above mentioned techniques. I almost felt the blow was light compared to
how I usually hit. From then on it's always been a race amongst my fr!
> > iends to be the one who gets to axe the haunch each year.
> >
> > Admittedly well padded armour makes a difference than bare flesh, but a
boar bone is really durable stuff & probably equivelent to armour. I would
say that the techniques above would enable axe & spearmen to fight in ranks.

Jon,
I have a question that regards the results of prep shooting that
occured in a game last night.
A unit of english light medium infantry longbowmen were in skirmish
formation. This unit was shot for 2cpf in prep shooting with some of
the casualties coming from HG. The question involves the proper
result from this. Do the longbowmen
a) waiver test or do a recall as skirmishers?(as per the 1st dot
point on page 73) or
b) waiver test since they a close or loose formation, not including
Irr A, that have taken 2 cpf from artillery or HG?(as per the 4th
sentence after the dot points on page 73)
I look forward to your reply
Thanks
Mike

[joncleaves]

<<A unit of english light medium infantry longbowmen were in skirmish
formation. This unit was shot for 2cpf in prep shooting with some of
the casualties coming from HG. The question involves the proper
result from this. Do the longbowmen
a) waiver test or do a recall as skirmishers?(as per the 1st dot
point on page 73) or
b) waiver test since they a close or loose formation, not including
Irr A, that have taken 2 cpf from artillery or HG?(as per the 4th
sentence after the dot points on page 73)>>

The answer is a)

Note that that list is meant to be read downwards. If you have a situation that
applies to you and another on a later bullet, the first one you come to applies.
You may be interested to know that I have just finished that section for the new
rulebook and have worked hard to make that clearer.

J

[Mike Bard]

In my ongoing attempts for a better rulebook (and playing games and running
into wierd and knotty situations), I have two more questions:

I. Charging From Skirmish.

A unit of LI archers is in the open in skirmish formation. They declare a
charge on a body of enemy light cavalry on the off chance the LC don't
charge them. The LC do. The LI archers pass their waver check.

What charge response options are open to the LI archers?

Note: I quote entire paragraphs as I had an annoying friend who would look
up things for SFB and quote one sentence out loud that supported his point.
I'd then take the rulebook and read the next sentence which explicitly
stated that his position was incorrect. :)

According to 6.166, second last paragraph page 44: "Troops in skirmish
formation (6.45) MUST evade. Note that troops in skirmish formation that
declare a charge SUCCESSFULLY (meaning it is not cancelled) revert to block
formation and do not have to evade in this case. Light troops may be
required to evade based on orders or on the results of options chosen during
perparatory shooting (11.1). Evades are not possible to units that are
contacted in a converted charge, as that action is not happening in the
charge phase and evade is a charge response."

According to 6.45, 6th paragraph: "Units in skirmish formation may charge
legal targets. If their charge is not canceled they are not otherwise
required to evade and revert to block at the start of charge movement. A
unit in skirmish formation which has its charge canceled becomes a
disordered block after it makes charge responses."

6.166 is clear in that the archers MUST evade. Their charge is cancelled
and they have no choice to eavde.
6.45 states that skirmishing troops with a cancelled charge becomes a
disordered block after it makes charge RESPONSES. This implies that they
are in a block formation and can CHOOSE their charge responses
(counter-charge [not possible in the example] but possible in other cases --
say skirmishing HC, stand, or evade).

As I read it, there are two possibilities:

1. The LI archers can CHOOSE whether they stand and receive or evade (or
counter charge if this was a legal option). This option is supported by
6.45 which states "charge RESPONSES". In this case 6.166 should be changed
to say "Their charge is cancelled and they may make normal charge
responses."

2. The LI archers MUST evade If an evade was the ONLY option, then 6.45
should say "becomes a disordered block after it evades."

II. Orb for multi-armed bodies.

The rules for Orb (6.44, page 53) describe how to depict it and that 1/4 the
outside models are front rank in any direction and 1/4 the inside models are
second rank in any direction).

An 8 element body of Han Infantry consists of 4 front rank elements armed
with 2HCT and shields, and 4 rear rank elements armed with CB (and no
shields). The formation goes into orb (2 elements wide and 4 elements
deep).

There are 20 figures along the outside, and 12 figures on the inside. This
yields 5 front rank figures fighting in any direction, and 3 second rank
figures fighting in any direction.

What weapons are used?

1. All figures are assumed to be armed with 2HCT and with CB (for
simplicity). Thus in any given direction there are 5+3/2RU or 7 2HCT
figures fighting, along with 3 supporting rear rank CB figures.

2. All outside figures are assumed to be shielded (even though there are 20
figures and only 16 figures are shielded) and armed with 2HCT (again 4 2HCT
suddenly "appear") and all 12 inside figures are assumed to be unshielded
and armed with CB. This is a bit of a fudge, but makes orb play the way it
worked historically.

3. Only 16 outside figures are shielded and armed with 2HCT, 4 outside
figures are unshielded and armed with CB. All inside figures are unshielded
and armed with CB. This means that an attack on either the front or rear
would be against shielded figures armed with 2HCT, and an attack on either
flank would be against 2 figures armed with 2HCT and shielded, and 2 armed
with CB and unshielded. Or, the flank would be considered unshielded.

Also, if the front rank is HI and the rear rank is MI, how does this work?
Do extra HI appear and case either 1 or 2 apply (my preference), or are the
flanks counted as MI and the front/rear counted as HI.

At the very least there should be an example of this in the revised
rulebook -- one that covers multiple weapon types, shield types, and armour
types.

Thanks in advance,
Michael Bard
That Greek Hoplite Guy working to make the new rulebook a better place by
asking questions. :)

[joncleaves]

<< In my ongoing attempts for a better rulebook (and playing games and running
into wierd and knotty situations), I have two more questions:

I. Charging From Skirmish.

A unit of LI archers is in the open in skirmish formation. They declare a
charge on a body of enemy light cavalry on the off chance the LC don't
charge them. The LC do. The LI archers pass their waver check.

What charge response options are open to the LI archers?>>

It must evade. Note that the LI charge is canceled, so it is also disordered
even if it passes its waver test.

If you don't like that it says 'after charge responses' in there, Mike (which is
still plenty correct), you can recommend a fix in your review of 6.0...

<<Note: I quote entire paragraphs>>

No need. I have a copy...lol


<<II. Orb for multi-armed bodies.

The rules for Orb (6.44, page 53) describe how to depict it and that 1/4 the
outside models are front rank in any direction and 1/4 the inside models are
second rank in any direction).

An 8 element body of Han Infantry consists of 4 front rank elements armed
with 2HCT and shields, and 4 rear rank elements armed with CB (and no
shields). The formation goes into orb (2 elements wide and 4 elements
deep).

There are 20 figures along the outside, and 12 figures on the inside. This
yields 5 front rank figures fighting in any direction, and 3 second rank
figures fighting in any direction.

What weapons are used?>>

The ones on the figure. There are 10 figs on the outside armed with 2HCT and 10
with CB. 1/4 of each fight in each direction. The player can choose which
weapon for the fractional figure.
What we are going to do is say that an orb counts shielded if all figs in it
have shields, which is the intent, but the language isn't clear.

Not all units that *can* go into orb *should*. Rather than make a list of who
really shouldn't, the rule is self-policing...

Jon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ability to Counter
- A body may attempt a counter if it has an opponent capable of shooting at
it. Does 'capable' encompass only in arc and in range? Would the fact that the
shooter in question has another, higher priority target and will NOT shoot at
the body trying to counter make it not capable?

Shooting while interpenetrated
- How does interpenetration effect ability to shoot?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

Capable includes target priority.

If you were interpenetrated (or exchanged ranks) you can't shoot that bound..

For situations where a body performed an interpenetration that had them move
beyond their tactical move:

"6.52 (Pg 54) Add a sixth paragraph: Interpenetration and Combat. If
interpenetration results in any element of a body moving further than its
tactical move distance, it cannot conduct preparatory shooting or declare a
charge. Note also that troops who this bound were interpenetrated by a moving
friendly body or exchanged ranks cannot shoot (8.84)."

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Walker <rwalker@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups. com <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:11:44 -0500
Subject: [WarriorRules] Rules question



Ability to Counter
- A body may attempt a counter if it has an opponent capable of shooting at
it. Does 'capable' encompass only in arc and in range? Would the fact that the
shooter in question has another, higher priority target and will NOT shoot at
the body trying to counter make it not capable?

Shooting while interpenetrated
- How does interpenetration effect ability to shoot?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> If you were interpenetrated (or exchanged ranks) you can't shoot that
> bound..

What effect does interpenetration have on the next bound, assuming the
bodies do not move?

[joncleaves]

None

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Walker <rwalker@...>
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:07:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Rules question



> If you were interpenetrated (or exchanged ranks) you can't shoot that
> bound..

What effect does interpenetration have on the next bound, assuming the
bodies do not move?







Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

so a body of LI B can shoot as normal while interpenetrating an elephant unit as
long as it did not interpenetrate that bound and the front edge of the LI is
clear of the elephant body?


----- Original Message -----
From: <JonCleaves@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Rules question


>
> None
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Walker <rwalker@...>
> To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:07:08 -0500
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Rules question
>
>
>
>> If you were interpenetrated (or exchanged ranks) you can't shoot that
>> bound..
>
> What effect does interpenetration have on the next bound, assuming the
> bodies do not move?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

This is a real good quentsion... when left mixed from
interpenetrating in a previous bound (eg insufficient move to clear
but other reason occurs to resolve), do the units still count
as "interpenatring" in the current bound? (if I understand the
question, it might apply to other things as well and the answer
could probably use being considered a "clarifiaction")

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Walker" <rwalker@g...>
wrote:
> so a body of LI B can shoot as normal while interpenetrating an
elephant unit as long as it did not interpenetrate that bound and
the front edge of the LI is clear of the elephant body?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JonCleaves@a...>
> To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Rules question
>
>
> >
> > None
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Walker <rwalker@g...>
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:07:08 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Rules question
> >
> >
> >
> >> If you were interpenetrated (or exchanged ranks) you can't
shoot that
> >> bound..
> >
> > What effect does interpenetration have on the next bound,
assuming the
> > bodies do not move?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]