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Rules questions...again

 
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Greg Preston
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Location: Newcastle, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:32 am    Post subject: Rules questions...again


Dear Jon,

Two rules questions emerged from a game we had down here on Tuesday
night.

1. Two players both had large flank marches. 506 points and 480 points
respectively.

The issue arose with the recall move from the edge of the rear zone for
the smaller flank march. The space into which the troops were to
recall was already “full”. In one place there was a unit of close
order foot deployed against the table edge and the other section had a
40pace gap between the table edge and the Baggage camp. A close reading
of 14.45 on Flank marches and 6.81 Troops entering the table told us
about the “attacker” not having enough space to come on. Following the
“moving on to the table” section in 14.45 for these “forced back”
guys would seem to lead to some strange and difficult situations
......with the forced back guys potentially arriving after (even
charging the rear of!!) the troops who forced them back.
What happens if the opposed flank marcher who is forced back doesn’t
have room to come on ?

2. In 6.165 Making Charges... in the Lining Up and “pivot..”
sections..... It states that the “targets of charges in non-open
terrain may not be forced to line up ..(or pivot) in such a way that
they may no longer get the full advantage of the terrain...” ie
loose/open can’t be “pulled out” of the terrain by the line-up/pivot
process.
Is it possible to “pull” close formation troops “into” terrain which
will “disadvantage” them by charging them ?

Thanks in advance,

Greg Preston


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


I would be very interested to hear the answers to these ones

Adrian

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Greg Preston <edgdp@a...> wrote:
> Dear Jon,
>
> Two rules questions emerged from a game we had down here on Tuesday
> night.
>
> 1. Two players both had large flank marches. 506 points and 480
points
> respectively.
>
> The issue arose with the recall move from the edge of the rear zone
for
> the smaller flank march. The space into which the troops were to
> recall was already "full". In one place there was a unit of close
> order foot deployed against the table edge and the other section
had a
> 40pace gap between the table edge and the Baggage camp. A close
reading
> of 14.45 on Flank marches and 6.81 Troops entering the table told
us
> about the "attacker" not having enough space to come on. Following
the
> "moving on to the table" section in 14.45 for these "forced back"
> guys would seem to lead to some strange and difficult situations
> ......with the forced back guys potentially arriving after (even
> charging the rear of!!) the troops who forced them back.
> What happens if the opposed flank marcher who is forced back
doesn't
> have room to come on ?
>
> 2. In 6.165 Making Charges... in the Lining Up and "pivot.."
> sections..... It states that the "targets of charges in non-open
> terrain may not be forced to line up ..(or pivot) in such a way
that
> they may no longer get the full advantage of the terrain..." ie
> loose/open can't be "pulled out" of the terrain by the line-
up/pivot
> process.
> Is it possible to "pull" close formation troops "into" terrain
which
> will "disadvantage" them by charging them ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Greg Preston
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


In a message dated 8/6/2003 23:59:25 Central Daylight Time,
edgdp@... writes:

> 1. Two players both had large flank marches. 506 points and 480 points
> respectively.
>
> The issue arose with the recall move from the edge of the rear zone for
> the smaller flank march. The space into which the troops were to
> recall was already “full”. In one place there was a unit of close
> order foot deployed against the table edge and the other section had a
> 40pace gap between the table edge and the Baggage camp. A close reading
> of 14.45 on Flank marches and 6.81 Troops entering the table told us
> about the “attacker” not having enough space to come on. Following the
> “moving on to the table” section in 14.45 for these “forced back”
> guys would seem to lead to some strange and difficult situations
> ......with the forced back guys potentially arriving after (even
> charging the rear of!!) the troops who forced them back.
> What happens if the opposed flank marcher who is forced back doesn’t
> have room to come on ?

6.821 does not just apply to 'attackers' - it applies to any body arriving on
table. Your on-table situation isn't perfectly clear to me, but it *seems*
like the forced back guy will be partially on table on his arrival bound and
when the larger (enemy) flank march arrives, he and the stuff that blocked him
will all be in a world of hurt. An exact answer to this particular situation
would certainly require a diagram. The files section of the group contains a
power point file of Warrior graphics designed to help in the construction of
such diagrams.

>
> 2. In 6.165 Making Charges... in the Lining Up and “pivot..”
> sections..... It states that the “targets of charges in non-open
> terrain may not be forced to line up ..(or pivot) in such a way that
> they may no longer get the full advantage of the terrain...” ie
> loose/open can’t be “pulled out” of the terrain by the line-up/pivot
> process.
> Is it possible to “pull” close formation troops “into” terrain which
> will “disadvantage” them by charging them ?

No. For the time being, change 'impassable' to 'impassable or disordering'
until I can clarify so that this does not get abused.

J


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Greg Preston
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


Dear Jon,

Thanks for the prompt reply.
I think I attempted to ask too many implied questions in one go with
the flank march question. I’ll ask them one at time and see if that
makes it clearer.

I will have another attempt at explaining the situation with the “flank
marchers” who need to make a Recall move from their own table edge
before resorting to the PP diagrams.

A situation arose in a recent game where the troops required to recall
back from the side edge of their own rear zone could not physically fit
onto the table. There were two units which were able to get one
element each onto the table – the other three units were unable to get
any elements at all onto the table.

The situation before the recall move


XaBB
XaBB
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP

X is the Table side edge in question
a is an empty space large enough to fit one element of LMI facing the
table edge
BB represents a baggage camp element
PP represents an element of close order foot facing the table edge

Thus after the recall “on” move the two spaces which have been
identified as –a- in the diagram above are filled with one element of
each of the two units which make it partially onto the table.

What happens to the other three units who are supposed to recall on but
don’t make it onto the table at all ?

Let me know if I have still not made this clear and I’ll try the PP
diagram.
Thanks

Greg P.

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


Greg

I am in Germany on a mission. I will answer your questions when I get back
on/about the 17th, unless I can get my rules CD and this computer in the same
room alone while I am here....

Just be patient. :)

J


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Kelly Wilkinson
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


SEE! I told you Big Brother IS WATCHING! LOL! ;)

Kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
Greg

I am in Germany on a mission. I will answer your questions when I get back
on/about the 17th, unless I can get my rules CD and this computer in the same
room alone while I am here....

Just be patient. :)

J

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joncleaves
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Rules questions...again


The situation before the recall move


XaBB
XaBB
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP
XPP

X is the Table side edge in question
a is an empty space large enough to fit one element of LMI facing the
table edge
BB represents a baggage camp element
PP represents an element of close order foot facing the table edge

Thus after the recall “on” move the two spaces which have been
identified as –a- in the diagram above are filled with one element of
each of the two units which make it partially onto the table.

What happens to the other three units who are supposed to recall on but
don’t make it onto the table at all ?>>

6.821 says:

"Troops unable to arrive due to the proximity of enemy bodies, terrain or the
size of the area in which they may legally enter remain off table and must enter
as soon as entry becomes possible without the need to re-roll for arrival.
Bodies that remain off-table must enter in any phase (approach, march, charge)
and in any formation that gets the most units onto the table in the least number
of
bounds."

If entry never becomes possible, they never come on.

The interesting thing here is that they are recalling onto their own table edge,
but somehow one of your own units (P in the example above) is blocking the way.
Warrior is designed to punish 'traffic jams'.

Jon


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