Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/20/2004 17:20:12 Central Standard Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:
They technically automatically leave testudo upon entering hand-
to-hand but exactly when is that - when contact is made >>

When contact is made.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

Sorry to monopolize the bandwidth but this particular post is a good
question I promise.

Roman legionaries in testudo charge past a missile unit into hand-to-
hand with a third unit, so that the enemy missile unit is behind the
testudo right (normally unshielded) flank when the testudo contacts
the third unit.

So, assuming proper armament of course, the missile unit gets to
support shoot.

Question is, do the Roman legionaries still count as being in
testudo, hence shielded on their flanks and rear, to this support
shot? They technically automatically leave testudo upon entering hand-
to-hand but exactly when is that - when contact is made prior to
support shooting or when the actual hand-to-hand resolution is
performed after support shooting?

Understood, of course, that they are shielded to their front against
the unit they charging anyway, this just concerns other units
shooting into their flank or rear, and ignores for the moment wether
this is such a good idea on their part!

[John Murphy]

So, just to be sure I have it right if you do not mind, in the
situation described (charging in testudo) they would be shieldless to
a support shot from behind their right flank, or their rear?

A second and separate question too...

If a unit of legionaries in fulcum is recoiled by (cringe) losing to
mounted, therefore automatically leaving fulcum, do they fight next
bound with rank-and-a-half or only one-rank 1HCW? Or put another way,
since they are no longer in fulcum do they now as reverting from HTW
get half the second rank? Or are they still technically reverting
from fulcum-HTW to 1HCW and so only get one rank in subsequent bounds?

This seems like the rules give them rank and a half but I just want
to be certain. The testudo question, though is fuzzy enough to me to
warrant maybe including in the clarifications if it is not there
already.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/20/2004 17:20:12 Central Standard Time,
> jjmurphy@s... writes:
> They technically automatically leave testudo upon entering hand-
> to-hand but exactly when is that - when contact is made >>
>
> When contact is made.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/20/2004 17:51:22 Central Standard Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:
So, just to be sure I have it right if you do not mind, in the
situation described (charging in testudo) they would be shieldless to
a support shot from behind their right flank, or their rear?>>
yes. support shooting is after any charge movement is complete.


A second and separate question too...

If a unit of legionaries in fulcum is recoiled by (cringe) losing to
mounted, therefore automatically leaving fulcum, do they fight next
bound with rank-and-a-half or only one-rank 1HCW?>>
This would be a subsequent bound and the romans would not be in fulcum (they
recoiled). This means that if HTW armed, they are now treated as 1HCW (if the
roman swordsman rule applies to them) which is 1.5 ranks against some mounted
and 1.0 ranks against others.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

In 9.22 "Ranks after first" under HTW: _all_ HTW troops, when forced
to use the "other weapons" class in a subsequent bound of combat, got
fight in 1.5 ranks regardless. So you are saying this is not extended
to Romans counted as using 1HCW by the swordsmen rule?

Another Roman-related RULES question...

If a unit of legionaries (or, realy, any other unit type able to do
so under the rules) replaces another in hand-to-hand, they count as
charging but does the the enemy unit get charge reactions and / or
get a support shot at the new chargers?

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> This means that if HTW armed, they are now treated as 1HCW (if the
> roman swordsman rule applies to them) which is 1.5 ranks against
some mounted
> and 1.0 ranks against others.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/22/2004 11:27:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:

> to use the "other weapons" class in a subsequent bound of combat, got
> fight in 1.5 ranks regardless. So you are saying this is not extended
> to Romans counted as using 1HCW by the swordsmen rule?>>


I am saying that when roman swordsmen revert to 1HCW, then they are 1HCW while
reverted and not HTW. This means they act like 1HCW for all purposes while they
are being treated as 1HCW.

>


> Another Roman-related RULES question...
>
> If a unit of legionaries (or, realy, any other unit type able to do
> so under the rules) replaces another in hand-to-hand, they count as
> charging but does the the enemy unit get charge reactions
> and / or
> get a support shot at the new chargers?>>


The only type of troop that can be in contact and make a charge response is a
non impetuous pursuer only in contact with broken troops (6.166).

As far as support shooting: 8.83 says - "Bodies already in hand-to-hand contact
from the previous bound can only shoot at their opponents and then only with bow
from a rank of figures not eligible to fight (9.2)." So none of the front rank
can shoot and none of a rear rank that has both bow and a HTH weapon that allows
them to fight - this means typically no support shot, but it is possible.