Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Ewan McNay]

At the risk of being attacked from both sides here, I'm going to step in
. Fools rushing and all that...

On Thu, 27 May 2004 larryessick@... wrote:
> Third, I am asking about a unit that has gone into skirmish and had
> its target counter or retire to outside of shooting range.

OK. So there's obviously no way to get closer this bound. Move to next
bound.

> Fourth, I know that the skirmish unit cannot move in the bound that
> the counter or retirement occurs because of the sequence of a bound.

Good.

> Fifth, in the bound following the counter or retirement of the target
> unit, what is the unit that is now in skirmish allowed to do? You
> have said that it can move to within shooting range or remain in place
> without moving. That does not seem consistent with the rules.

I agree, sort of, that Jon's answers have been odd in some parts of this
thread, but think that's at least in part to some odd Qs . now I'm
going to offer rules answers.

The actions permissible have not changed. If the shooting unit is
approaching first, it must still either be able to shoot or have the
possibility of having enemy move to allow such. This paragraph is
essentially continued after your example..

> The rules say that the unit must do everything possible to get into
> range again. If LMI w JLS are in skirmish and their LC target
> counters to 200p distant then in the next bound does the LMI
>
> (a) not move at all (one of your original answers) or does it
> (b) move 120p towards the target even though this is still 80p away
> and out of shooting range or does it
> (c) drop out of skirmish?

...in this case, none of these are mandated - the LC target could move
back into shooting range this bound. So skirmish is still an option.

The rules-interesting case (wake up, Jon) I think might occur here if the
LC chose to pre-empt the LMI, but then not to move in approaches. The Q
is whether the LMI are allowed to remain stationary in skirmish, because
of the 'enemy countered away' exemption.

I can see possible arguments both ways. The real question is whether that
exemption is for 'countered away *this bound*' or simply *some time*.

> I think that the answer cannot be (a) because that is not doing
> "everything possible" as required by 6.45 on my next move. Note also
> that 6.45 says "moves" and that I am assuming that this means that I
> can take more than one move (over more than one bound) to get back
> into shooting range without having to give up being in skirmish.

Larry, I think in this stuff after the first bound you are forgetting that
having enemy able to move into shooting range is an option for being in
skirmish, as well as simply being able to shoot.

Right?

[And yes, Jon is over-reacting, but then you're poking him; just as
happened in reverse overon NASAMWList. Gee, surprise.]

[Larry Essick]

> Larry, I think in this stuff after the first bound you are
forgetting that
> having enemy able to move into shooting range is an option for being
in
> skirmish, as well as simply being able to shoot.
>
> Right?
>
> [And yes, Jon is over-reacting, but then you're poking him; just as
> happened in reverse overon NASAMWList. Gee, surprise.]

Ewan,

No, I am not poking at Jon. I asked the question because we are
playing in two days and I have been away from the game for a long time
and the wording in 6.45 seems odd to me.

It does not appear that I can maintain skirmish just because the enemy
can move to within my shooting range.

In fact, I read the section to specifically say that I can ENTER
skirmish under this situation but that I can only REMAIN in skirmish
if I move back into shooting range.

The example in 6.45 clearly deals with the need for me to move towards
the target.

As the section is written, I can form skirmish if the enemy can move
to within my shooting range this bound or if I will be within shooting
range after going into skirmish. That much is clear.

I do not lose skirmish formation this bound if the enemy counters
outside of my shooting range.

But, on the next bound I no longer have the freedom to count on the
enemy's move -- the rules say that *I* must act ("move or not move"
and "do everything"). In fact, they specifically say that the
exception (waiting on the enemy to move into range) applies only for
going into skirmish.

I'm sorry if you, Jon, or anyone else thinks that I am just jabbing at
Jon. I am not. I am trying to figure out a rule that does not make
sense to me -- or, more precisely, that I think I understand but that
is different from 7th.

Jon's answers and yours seem to say that nothing is different. But,
that is not consistent with what the section actually says or with the
example provided that deals with units in skirmish reacting to
countered targets.

Larry

[Larry Essick]

> As the LC can move to your shooting range and approaches second, the
LMI may
> stay in skirmish. There is nothing about this example as written
'making'
> the LMI do anything or preventing it from staying in skirmish.

I don't think that this is what the rules say.

They say that I can initially go into skirmish using this, even if I
cannot get to within shooting range.

They say that I can remain in skirmish only if I "do everything
possible" to get back into shooting range with *my* moves.

What the LC does or can do is irrelevent.

It might be that you meant for the section to mean what you have
written. But it does not seem to say that.

See my message to Ewan. The example even shows that the unit in
skirmish -- not the target -- must move.

Larry

[Larry Essick]

> It does not appear that I can maintain skirmish just because the
enemy
> can move to within my shooting range.>>
> After reading it several times again, I can see where one can read
6.45 as
> saying that the enemy ability to approach second case does not apply
to already
> being in skirmish. It *does* apply and I will clarify it
officially in the
> next set of clarifications. Will that suffice?

OK, then I have no other questions.

Thanks,

Larry