Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Hi to all,
Afew thoughts about a handful of troop types that never quite made sense to me in the "good ol' days" of 7th ed that may (or may not) stimulate some discussion.
 
1/  2 horse HCh are not very good.A 4 horse HCh is literally twice as good as a 2 horse one yet points cost don't reflect this. Worse still a 4 horse LCh has a fair chance of rolling a 2 horse heavy.I suspect this is the main reason why one rarely,if ever, encounters Hittites,Caananites,Philistines and other 2 horse chariot armies,especially in competition.Historically such machines appear to have dominated the battlefield for a long time, until replaced by the bigger better 4 horse versions.Unfortunately I'm not offering any solution to this, but look forward to your comments.
 
2/  The rules state that stampeding cattle and the like be treated as 4 horse scythed chariots.Should they therefore not cost the same??
 
3/  Similarly sacred std's,screaming druids etc are really little more than PA stds on steroids (480 pace compared to 240).So why cost them out at many times the cost of a pa?A more realistic value might be 30-60 pts?Lets not forget that 480 paces of eagerness can turn into 480 paces of waver tests very quickly if you're silly enough so I suggest the only difference between a s and a pa std is 240 paces.The cost should reflect this.
 
4/  On the subject of stds here in New Zealand p std stands for "pointless"std. I know you have already looked at this but I humbly request you look again.Paying 5 or 10 pts to show my troops where my routing general is bugs me more than I can say.
 
5/  Army Lists; where do you stand re wrg's hutchby/clark books 1,2,&3? Are you going to comprehensively re-write new lists or just tidy up obvious errors/omissions.Guess who is planning a new army and dosn't want it emasculated in 12 months time!!
 
6/  Finally 2Hct.The extra point.I have 2 thoughts to be considered individually or together.
Sa costs the same as htw,costs the same as 2hcw,costs the same as lts etc.Some of these weapons have different effects yet still come free of charge,like the humble pocket knife,as long as thats all you are armed with.Why is 2hct penalised?It's a 2hcw with a -1.P and lts get a -2 yet cost no more.My advice,my plea,dump the extra point.Please.
Thought 2; 2hct is described as a combination 2hcw and lts.Indeed that is the (weak) reason for the extra point.Try this out,it works ok we think....
count as 2hcw when charging,usual deal,front rank only,shieldless after 2nd round etc.When recieving a charge count as lts,rank and a half,etc.If disordered (2nd round or at contact) count as shieldless 2hcw.Personally I can just about live with the extra point in this case.
 
 
Clearly one would not want to tinker to much with the basic mechanics.But I do believe that if you are going to revive ths great set of rules (a pox on dbm) then take the oppertunity to get rid of the idiot bits,most of which were hang overs from 6th edition.Ithink the inability to rally routing elephants is inspired, and reading rules in plain english,with examples,and cross-referenced will attract many back from the grip of the foul pretender,and encourage those that the legalistic,incomprehensible 7th frightened away.
 
Enough!!
regs
Browny
   

[scott holder]

5/ Army Lists; where do you stand re wrg's hutchby/clark books 1,2,&3? Are
you going to comprehensively re-write new lists or just tidy up obvious
errors/omissions.Guess who is planning a new army and dosn't want it
emasculated in 12 months time!!

>We are rewriting lists entirely. Keep in mind that this will be at least a
two year project. Having said that, any tournament/umpire is always free to
allow or not allow any list books at any given tournament. I know that here
in the States at the shows I run, I'll allow old army list books for as long
as the armies covered by them haven't been published in one of the WARRIOR
list books. When such a list book is published, I won't be allowing older
variants of those lists.

>Again, that's just me. Anyone, anywhere is free to use whatever they want to
use. Just as long as I'm not umpiring:):)

Scott
List Horseman

[joncleaves]

Grant

As we chat, please remember Rule #1: Warrior is not just for tournaments. It is
intended to be the best historical representation we can make. If troop X sucks
in tourneys, but does what it should against historical opponents, it will not
be changed just because the army is not competitive in open play.

<<one rarely,if ever, encounters Hittites,Caananites,Philistines and
other 2 horse chariot armies,especially in competition.>>

We are looking at list rules for this, but see Rule 1.

<<2/ The rules state that stampeding cattle and the like be treated as 4 horse
scythed chariots.Should they therefore not cost the same??>>

Yup. I've just spent a lot of time cleaning up the expendables (as it were).

<<3/ Similarly sacred std's,screaming druids etc are really little more than PA
stds on steroids (480 pace compared to 240).So why cost them out at many
times the cost of a pa?>>

They are many times better than a PA. The SA does not have to be advancing and
does not have to be within 240p of the enemy. It can sit way behind the center
of a line and keep a whole smackload of troops eager. (You should see the
effect my white camel has on my Midianites) In fact, my TI-55 calculator shows
an SA to be worth exactly 82.87965 points, but we are going to round it off.

Sorry about that. But we are talking about 20-40 points or so (less than most
small LI units) in a 1600 point army. The SA is demonstrably better than the
PA, it costs more, the point difference is neglible in game terms and it is not
ruining tourneys. In fact we have the opposite danger: if we reduce it, people
may discover its secrets....


<<4/ On the subject of stds here in New Zealand p std stands for "pointless"
std. I know you have already looked at this but I humbly request you look
again.>>

Sure, what the hell.

<<Paying 5 or 10 pts to show my troops where my routing general is bugs me>>

It would me too. I use my P standards to get a whole bunch of regular troops
charging impetuously at the same time. I also use them to make prompting easier.

<<5/ Army Lists; where do you stand re wrg's hutchby/clark books 1,2,&3? Are
you going to comprehensively re-write new lists>>

Yes.

<<Guess who is planning a new army and dosn't want it emasculated>>

There are no emasculated armies. Just some that don't perform well against
others.
If you are buying an army purely for its competitive value in opens, I would
suggest to you that the FHE philosophy that where history is undecided as to how
to represent a particular troop type we will give all or most options to the
player is about as good an insurance policy as you are going to get.

By the way, which army is it we need to ruin?

<<6/ Finally 2Hct.The extra point.>>

You are trying to wear me out, aren't you?

Melee weapons come in three types: thrusting, chopping and smashing. 2HCT have
the unique distinction of being able to be employed in two of those three
manners. Phil originally thought it should be priced that way, too. Since the
2HCT have an ability that is never taken away, no matter the
order/cohesion/subsequent round, it has never really bothered me. Since I am a
big time Han player, I'll mention this to the other FH, since I would have a
conflict of interest.

And before you hit me with javlelin, remember that the category is JLS:
javelin/light spear. Either is a thrusting weapon, and generally troops
employed it as a thrown weapon before they employed their SA, OR as a spear
alone (MI/HI) and were only trained in one of those methods.
Phil's point system reflects the cost of training the troops as much as
equipping them.

Then, of course, we are again talking about the price of a small LI unit in an
army of 1600.

<<Clearly one would not want to tinker to much with the basic mechanics.>>

You got that right, brother.

<<But I do believe that if you are going to revive ths great set of rules (a pox
on dbm) then take the oppertunity to get rid of the idiot bits>>

One man's idiot bit is another's central concept.

Please take all this in the manner in which it is intended: friendly banter.
Notice that I do agree with you on the cost of stampeding cattle. :)

P standard waving, I bid you good day.
Jon