Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I stopped playing SFB in the mid 1980s with the first edition. Too
much looking up damage report/repair craps Rather roll up 4 and
rout the buggers on contact ;)

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, kelly wilkinson
<jwilkinson62@y...> wrote:
> Well Boyd,
>
> There's always Starfleet Battles. Don't mess with the Vudar as they
will mess you up! Or for that matter so will a good ISC!
>
> kelly
>
> Wanax Andron <spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
> thread must have changed since I stoped reading replies after
around
> number 15. The jist I got was more whining about making cons
work.
> Appologies if the thread had moved on. BTW, I'l love to play
against
> a cheap klingon
>
> Wanax
>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Scott & Tracie McCoppin"
> <sctrac@p...> wrote:
> > While I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, necessarily,
> but it
> > seems to me that this thread is focused on how to get more of
those
> folks
> > who currently play with toy soldiers to show up – not try to
> convert others
> > from, say, a Star Trek convention to show up to play with toy
> soldiers…
> >
> > I, for one, might find it a bit disconcerting to play across from
> some guy
> > in a cheap Klingon outfit …
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wanax Andron [mailto:spocksleftball@y...]
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:04 AM
> > To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: What does it take
> >
> > Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> > ment.
> >
> > To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> > viewing your own ass in a mirror.
> >
> > Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers.
In
> > fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is
just
> > so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> > they will return. Good time is the key.
> >
> > Of course people want to associate with others who have similar
non-
> > mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
> far
> > removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> > mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> > participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> > participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in
the
> > entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> > To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> > more maintstreaming of our efforts.
> >
> > Wanax
> > stater of the obvious
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Dave Smith]

"Wanax Andron"wrote:
Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
they will return. Good time is the key.



<DS> Greetings;

I think Larry originally was discussing how to attract tourney
players to a con.

IMO, tourney guys largely participate for the competition....the
challenge, if you will, either to better our own self-perceived
abilities (game), or to smash the guy across the table from them,
and ending up in the winner's circle. To be recognized as a damn
good player Warrior player, maybe the best, by their peers is a
strong motivator.

Back in my day when I won the 1984 Norbert Gisclair using 6th
Edition.............(I promise I won't go there) ..........

Anyway, my opinion is if you can create a prestigious event by
attracting top players, then you will create an upward spiral which
will build on itself. Jon/Scott are close to creating such a venue
here, and I daresay, that in a couple of years, this may be one of
the top Warrior tourney's in the country.....similar to what the
guys did in Baton Rouge (and still do today with DBM).

Dave

> <DS> Greetings;
>
> I think Larry originally was discussing how to attract tourney
> players to a con.

Yes I get this, but with reservations as to exactly what this means
logistically.

>
> IMO, tourney guys largely participate for the competition....the
> challenge, if you will, either to better our own self-perceived
> abilities (game), or to smash the guy across the table from them,
> and ending up in the winner's circle. To be recognized as a damn
> good player Warrior player, maybe the best, by their peers is a
> strong motivator.

there is no doubt that in this instance the guys wanting to play with
toy soldiers has a hyper competitive bent, which only strengthens my
arguement by further narrowing the available market niche even
further. The same narrowing might be imagined if a subset of Risk
players wagered money on the outcome of games; they would be a
narrower field to attract.

>
> Back in my day when I won the 1984 Norbert Gisclair using 6th
> Edition.............(I promise I won't go there) ..........

Arrows at 480 paces and charges gallore. That is all I remember of
6th ;)

>
> Anyway, my opinion is if you can create a prestigious event by
> attracting top players, then you will create an upward spiral which
> will build on itself. Jon/Scott are close to creating such a venue
> here, and I daresay, that in a couple of years, this may be one of
> the top Warrior tourney's in the country.....similar to what the
> guys did in Baton Rouge (and still do today with DBM).


Absolutely and at the expense of less successful events. This is my
original debunking premise. You cannot grow more gamers or gamer's
money, so you must lure them to return a second time by making it so
that they "have a good time" :)

for Nappy players this is having huge numbers of figs, good terrain,
and lots of historical context. For us it is smashing and winning.
For tiddlywink players it is flipping chips around. There really is
on a variation on a theme here.

>
> Dave

Point noted Dave.
Wanax

[joncleaves]

Ok, I am calling and end to this thread. One - it is getting acrimonious. Two
- this group is about increasing Warrior play specifically - which I do
recognize this thread was mostly focused on. However, the generic bring people
into the hobby stuff is more appropriate on NASAMWLIst which can, does and
should focus on other rules sets.

Here we want to foster Warrior play specifically and that may include the
recruiting of a player of another rules set who may give that up for good and
end up playing Warrior exclusively. That's a slightly different rtecruiting
angle than the generalized 'get them into the hobby any way we can' strategy of
NASAMW, HMGS, etc.

Jon

[Chris Bump]

Well, Boyd, the effort to become more mainstream may be part of what
this thread should be addressing. I, however, do not consider us to
be fringe dwellers. The term implies that there is something
inherently wrong about the hobby.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>hmm. I think that because what we do is so far from the mainstream of what
most, and by most I mean in excess of 90% of adults do for entertainment, we
could be considered fringe dwellers. I have no problem with that. I don't
percieve it as suggesting that there is something wrong with the hobby. I think
that those who dress up as klingongs are fringe dwellers too, and that is
something that I would never, ever do but also don't see anything inherently
wrong with that hobby. Don Carter always reminded me that we are just grown
men playing with toy soldiers, put aside all preconceived notions about
historical accuracy and simulations vs gaming. Grown men who enjoy lining up
the toy soldiers we have taken the time to paint. All else is just so much
rationalization. Now, clearly Scott, among others enjoys the art of historical
research, and that shows in the various lists. But the truth is there for all to
see.

I agree that Boyd came across as abrasive in his post. And I have not
contributed to this thread so his darts are obviously less likely to wound me
than others, but I didn't get the impression that he was trying to be insulting
or in some way detract from what you are trying to accomplish with this thread.
And you are obviously correct that his proclamations about what most people want
and do are as valid as yours.
Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: larryessick@...
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: What does it take


> Basically this entire thread is a load of crap. Sorry, no offense
> ment.

But, offense taken. We spend thousands of words on what should be
done to improve gaming opportunities and attract people to the hobby.
Yet, when we try to put together some combined experiences to help
with event building it becomes a load of crap.

I'd suggest you make the effort to actually go to an established
convention where there is no Warrior presence and see how difficult it
is to actually set up and run a successful event. Then, when you have
some personal experience to share you can be judgemental.

> To determine what brings people to cons is much more simple than
> viewing your own ass in a mirror.
>
> Most people show up because they like to play with toy soldiers. In
> fact, I'd say this is the main motivation. All the other BS is just
> so much gravy. If they had a good time, and have money to do so,
> they will return. Good time is the key.

Well, that is the word according to Boyd. But, like large numbers of
us, Boyd lives in a universe of his own making and colored by his own
delusions of the truth.

I can, as well as Boyd has, make statements about what most people do.
They are as meaningless. The only important contribution in this is
what motivates Boyd.

> Of course people want to associate with others who have similar non-
> mainstream entertainment desires. Wargaming in this sense is not
far
> removed from strip clubs or role players. Certainly the closer to
> mainstream a game gets the more people on the societal curve
> participate as the segment of interest and density of possible
> participants increases. Bottom line: we are fringe dwellers in the
> entertainment industry and need to recognize this before all else.
> To increase our market beyond the current stable segment requires
> more maintstreaming of our efforts.

Well, Boyd, the effort to become more mainstream may be part of what
this thread should be addressing. I, however, do not consider us to
be fringe dwellers. The term implies that there is something
inherently wrong about the hobby.

I believe that it would be difficult to define what is mainstream, but
whatever constitutes mainstream also, IMO, includes our hobby.

What I am curious about is the personal success and failure
experiences of people who have tried to run events at existing
conventions or who have tried to establish their own events outside of
conventions. The purpose is to build a lessons-learned file that can
help others to be successful.

To that end, I consider your entire attitude entirely offensive -- and
entirely inappropriate.

Larry


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