Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I have a couple of questioins. From my gaming this
past weekend, a couple of issues arose, and while I
may know the answer form 7th chip embedded in my left
testicle I want a clarification please :)

1. in 6.45 (p54) forth paragraph second bullet
"evade if charged, ending in a block of the same
frontage facing away"

question: What if it were charged from the flank? do
the evading skirmishers get what amounts to a free
formation and direction change by evading and turning
and reforming.

I recall that when facing flank, a turn of 90 degrees
required a unit to form column from block.

2. 6.52 first bullet "any mounted troops through any
light troops" Aren't LC considered "light" troops?
So my Norman IrrA crazies can charge through my LC
Bretons suffering only a -1 for disorder?


3. 6.61 Can I begin a game with my HC dismounted?


4. 6.44 I see in 6.43 that there is no shooting from
testudo "A body may not shoot while in testudo
formation". Yet I do not see the same for Orb.


Boyd
My Normans had their asses kicked by my First
Crusaders in a game of FW over the weekend. The first
2 questions arose from that. The last two arise from
my planning sessions :)


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[joncleaves]

<<1. in 6.45 (p54) forth paragraph second bullet
"evade if charged, ending in a block of the same
frontage facing away"

question: What if it were charged from the flank? do
the evading skirmishers get what amounts to a free
formation and direction change by evading and turning
and reforming.>>

Any evader gets this turn for free. 6.166, page 44, Evade Move.

<<I recall that when facing flank, a turn of 90 degrees
required a unit to form column from block.>>

True, so LC charged to the flank often evades to its rear instead of directly
away from the charge as going into column significantly increases the chance it
will be caught.

<<2. 6.52 first bullet "any mounted troops through any
light troops" Aren't LC considered "light" troops?
So my Norman IrrA crazies can charge through my LC
Bretons suffering only a -1 for disorder?>>

Yes. But with LC as deep as it is and only 160p for a charge move and only 100p
allowed in shoving back the LC and the LC not being closer to the enemy than
40p, it doesn't happen often.

<<3. 6.61 Can I begin a game with my HC dismounted?>>

Yes. That is exactly what 6.61 says. This is the second question just reading
the rules would answer. :)

<<4. 6.44 I see in 6.43 that there is no shooting from
testudo "A body may not shoot while in testudo
formation". Yet I do not see the same for Orb.>>

That is because a unit may shoot from orb. The same figures that count fighting
in each direction can shoot in each direction if eligible.

> question: What if it were charged from the flank?
> do
> the evading skirmishers get what amounts to a free
> formation and direction change by evading and
> turning
> and reforming.>>
>
> Any evader gets this turn for free. 6.166, page 44,
> Evade Move.

OK, I couldn't find that part when I needed it. In
any event, this seems different than I recall it being
back in the day. It makes for some long distance
sprinting for my LI, but I'll accept it as is.

>
> <<I recall that when facing flank, a turn of 90
> degrees
> required a unit to form column from block.>>
>
> True, so LC charged to the flank often evades to its
> rear instead of directly away from the charge as
> going into column significantly increases the chance
> it will be caught.

Well...according to what you just pointed out to me to
read, the LC get to turn 90 in order to get a free
formation change then evade from the new position
directly away from the charge. "When an evading body
moves directly away from the charge instead of it own
rear, it may have to wheel or turn 90 degrees (for
free in this case) or both in order to accomplish this
move. If so, it cannot increase the distance between
it and any potential pursuer purely through "changing
shape due to the turn." Now if it gets to turn for
free, as per my original question above, does it have
to change into column? THIS was my original question
broken into two segments. While your response may not
seem contraindicative, I still haven't the answer I'm
looking for; namely, a body charged in the flank,
turns 90 degrees to evade directly away from the
charge: Does it form column or remain in block during
the turn? According to 6.166 perhaps, but according
to 6.45 it remains in block if it were in skirmish to
begin with.

> <<3. 6.61 Can I begin a game with my HC
> dismounted?>>
>
> Yes. That is exactly what 6.61 says. This is the
> second question just reading the rules would answer.
> :)

In 6.61 you have the statement "These troops may be
deployed dismounted" refering back to a sentense
dealing with appropriate representation. You then
state "Dismount-capable troops must be prompted (4.3)
to dismount". Might I suggest that the "deployed"
sentense be relocated and amended onto the "prompted"
sentense rather than it's current location?

> That is because a unit may shoot from orb. The same
> figures that count fighting in each direction can
> shoot in each direction if eligible.

Oh BABY! 3x 6E IrrC MI JLS, B, Sh in Orb, holding a
flank while my crazy HC lance into the other en'masse.
Sounds just crazy enough to try! ;^D

Now, if I forcemarch my MI, can they be deployed in
Orb? Can my orb on a steep rocky hill also roll
boulders?

boyd
dismounted skirmishing orb shooter


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[joncleaves]

<<a body charged in the flank,
turns 90 degrees to evade directly away from the
charge: Does it form column or remain in block during
the turn?>>

It makes a 90 degree turn as per 6.121. It may be more than one element wide if
it was a deep unit before the turn.

<<Oh BABY! 3x 6E IrrC MI JLS, B, Sh in Orb, holding a
flank while my crazy HC lance into the other en'masse.
Sounds just crazy enough to try! ;^D>>

Please do. :)

<<Now, if I forcemarch my MI, can they be deployed in
Orb?>>

Yes.

<< Can my orb on a steep rocky hill also roll
boulders?>>

Yes.

<<dismounted skirmishing orb shooter>>

You know in the Army we have a saying, you spend 90% of your problem solving
time on 10% of your soldiers.......

First let me say, Jon, that I'm trying to regain some
tactical ability here after a decade of non-7th type
gaming. I've decided to use Warrior, and not
necessarily because it is the *best* rules set. It is
one of many. I enjoy my games with Warrior and hope
to continue. Any question I ask here is not
necessarily for you to answer, as many others here
could very easily respond. What my ultimate plan for
such information is remains with me; if it is
unfathomable to others is of only minor regard. I
also only ask questions for clarifications. If I find
something in the rules that appears disjointed to me,
then I will bring it here. If that is not the
purspose of this list, then inform me now.

You wrote the rewrite, and therefore have the
mechanics
picture in your head. As english is an imperfect
transmitter of visual conceptualisations at best, I,
like others, may need additional narrative to *see*
your vision.

> You know in the Army we have a saying, you spend 90%
> of your problem solving time on 10% of your
> soldiers.......

You know in the Infantry we have a saying, never ask
an officer if you want an answer that will keep you
alive.

Another saying we have is that given time, a room full
of officers will make any plan unexicutable. :)

Anyway,
boyd



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[joncleaves]

Boyd

Man you are taking me wayyyy too seriously.

This list is indeed the place to ask questions.
-If it is a rules question, I'll answer. We have had several instances of
players answering rules questions here incorrectly, and I don't want to confuse
anyone any more than I am capable of myself.
-If it is any other question (tactics, figures, painting, terrain, etc.) anyone
can answer.

Do I get a little frustrated when someone asks a rules question and the answer
is one sentence down from the one they were asking about? Sure, I'm only human.
Are evil spikes of hatred radiating out from me because I had to answer it? No,
so chill.

Do I find the idea of rock-rolling bow-armed orbs somewhat gimmicky? Yes. But
even then, my comment was meant in jest.

Take a deep breath and relax. I'm not pissed and I will continue to be happy to
answer all your rules questions. Seriously.

PS: here's a saying to go with yours: "the American enlisted man could even f**k
up a steel cube".... :)

Jon

[Ewan McNay]

JonCleaves@... wrote:
> Do I get a little frustrated when someone asks a rules question and the answer
is one sentence down from the one they were asking about? Sure, I'm only human.
Are evil spikes of hatred radiating out from me because I had to answer it? No,
so chill.

Which list gets evil spikes of hatred? What's their effect on shooting
overhead?

Ewan, gratuitous list jester (self-appointed)

[joncleaves]

<<Which list gets evil spikes of hatred? What's their effect on shooting
overhead?>>

Hmmm, maybe I should add them to the Beastmen list in Fantasy Warrior.... a
spell that makes the enemy unit pry open the nearest book and read it......

<<Ewan, gratuitous list jester (self-appointed)>>

Don silly hat now, please.

--- JonCleaves@... wrote:
> Man you are taking me wayyyy too seriously.

No, I'm responding. I'm not wearing my warface when I
respond, but I'm not 10% of your problems either.
I've heard the 90/10 rule many times, but it works
both ways. 10% of the rules generate 90% of the
questions.

> Do I get a little frustrated when someone asks a
> rules question and the answer is one sentence down
> from the one they were asking about? Sure, I'm only
> human. Are evil spikes of hatred radiating out from
> me because I had to answer it? No, so chill.

I am chilled..possibly frosted. the answers are not
on the same page, and yes there is a gap in
understanding of unit evading a flank charge and
formations. This is the typical kind of gray area in
which my gaming butt is continually inserted by rules
interpretations, so my reasoning is to avoid
misunderstanding.

> Do I find the idea of rock-rolling bow-armed orbs
> somewhat gimmicky? Yes. But even then, my comment
> was meant in jest.

Of course it is gimicky and legal by the rules. I
point it out, not as a tactical consideration, as much
as a point of jocularity.

> PS: here's a saying to go with yours: "the American
> enlisted man could even f**k up a steel cube"....
>
> Jon

Well, to determine if a man is infantry qualified,
they strip him naked, give him 2 18" steel spheres,
and lock him in a dark closet for 24 hours. When they
let him out, one of the spheres is missing, and the
other one is broken. MOS Qualified!

boyd



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[joncleaves]

<<10% of the rules generate 90% of the questions.>>

Ain't that the truth.

<<Of course it is gimicky and legal by the rules. I
point it out, not as a tactical consideration, as much
as a point of jocularity.>>

Ah, ok, if you find rock-rolling bows-hooting orbs funny also, then we *are* on
the same sheet here. :)

<<Well, to determine if a man is infantry qualified,
they strip him naked, give him 2 18" steel spheres,
and lock him in a dark closet for 24 hours. When they
let him out, one of the spheres is missing, and the
other one is broken. MOS Qualified!>>

Indeed. I have always wondered what Mike Turner did with that other sphere.....

J

[Doug]

>
>> You know in the Army we have a saying, you spend 90%
>> of your problem solving time on 10% of your
>> soldiers.......
>
>You know in the Infantry we have a saying, never ask
>an officer if you want an answer that will keep you
>alive.

A little something for both...

>During training exercises, the private who was
>driving down a muddy back road encountered another car
>stuck in the mud with a red-faced colonel at the
>wheel. .
>
>"Your jeep stuck, sir?" asked the private as he
>pulled alongside
>
>"Nope," replied the colonel, coming over and handing
>him the keys, "Yours is."
>
>**************************
>
>Officer: "Soldier, do you have change for a dollar?"
>Soldier: "Sure, buddy."
>
>Officer: "That's no way to address an officer! Now
>let's try it again. Sailor, do you have change for a
>dollar?"
>Soldier: "No, SIR!"
--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at
present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come
in it's turn, but it will be at a remote period." James Madison, 15
March 1798 (_Papers of J.M._ vol 12, p.14; LC call no. JK.111.M24)