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You may want to read this, was: 1.5 ranks - what does it rep

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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 16447

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: You may want to read this, was: Re: 1.5 ranks - what does it

Jonathan, the last thing I want is for anyone to have hard feelings here.
While I can certainly see why Scott and others got annoyed at your posts, I am
also well aware that sometimes our 'internet voice' does not match what we
intended the listener to hear.

So, in the vein of bridging the gap, let's look at your first mail.

<<List rules allow Mongol light cav and many other special troops of specific
nationalities to
fight in 1.5 ranks. Is this meant to simulate some tactical or formational
innovation like
some special way these troops fought that allowed them to put more fighting
power on
each section of their front line or is just meant to make these troops
in a generic
but balancing way.>>
It would have been best to end the mail right here. If you had, the only
problems would be, first, that you were asking a question that has been asked
and answered many times and, second, the way your question ends in an option
we would never take and have stated we would never take.
I am aware that some folks join the group after a discussion and ask a
question not realizing it has been discussed to death and I try to be sensitive
that. But I am pretty sure you were a member at the time of Oriental
Warrior's release. Then you fall prey to our policy of not answering why
except on a case by case basis. All too often a why question is asked by
someone who knows our answer already but is looking for a venue to reopen a
closed issue and beat it to death. Also, if we answer "why is X this way?"
"because we believe Y to be true" we often get "but I think Z is true and I
think you're wrong and want to debate the point." We don't have time for
such a debate. If the person has some primary material and references it as an
objection to something we've done, we jump on it as a hard look if it is
something we have not seen before. But also all too often we have seen it and
interpret it differently - as a part of a whole body of information - than
the objector.

Secondly, and I do not really want to EVER have to say this again, we will
never develop a rule or list rule solely for the purposes of generic or
tournament balance. Yes, we actually do find the continued discussion of such
option insulting. Now, I for one do not have feelings to hurt, so insult
away. But if you choose to, do not also expect me to get right on that answer
for you...lol I am also aware that, as our fan base grows, we pick up more and
more people from game systems that DO use rules to balance lists for tourney
play and so this issue may continue with players who join the group after
today. But for those of you here, all Warrior rules, list or book (not
counting 14 and 17) are for simulation purposes and not list to list balance

The answer is, our research shows that Mongol cavalry formations and tactics
at the high resolution level produced combat power at the point of fighting
more efficiently than many of their historical opponents.

Your mail is also not read in isolation. It may be the only mail you ever
posted on the subject. To one of us, it may seem like yet again another mail
on uncosted list rules.

<<Also, I should make clear, this is not a gripe about uncosted list rules.>>

See? Even you realized this might be the reaction...lol Unfortunately for
your timing, we had already had to deal with a couple of long threads that
were couched as being not about that subject yet that is exactly what they were

<< My
problem is that
when new players come and say, "How come your Mongol LC get to fight in 1.5
ranks and
mine don't?!" I want to have a better answer than, 'Ah . . . 'cause they're
ah . . . better.">>

Well actually that's a good answer. Its certainly true. And a new player
needs to know more than that initially because....? lol In any case, what we
need to do is find the message numbers for the threads where subjects like
this have already been discussed and have them available when we get asked
questions - so we can respond with, please see thread beginning with message
number X. We just don't have the time and yahoo is NOT the right software to
support us long term. At some point we will have a forum of our own and
to track such things. Give us about a year....

<<Finally, this is not just a question for Jon Cleaves but for anyone who
the answer or
has any insight into it.>>

Bill the Greek did fine work on our behalf. Scott was burned out. Please
be patient with us just before through just after major cons...lol

And from a later mail, you said...

<<But I guess I sort of have an answer - Mongols can fight in 1.5 ranks to
them better.>>

The problem with what happened is that you asked for an answer and said it
did not have to come from us as far as you were concerned and then made the
above statement as though it were the official answer. That really made
something that was a no big deal thread into a that pisses me off thread. If
don't want to, can't wait or can't make a look through the archive for the
answer from us, please don't state it on our behalf. I *think* if that hadn't
happened, we would have come back from Cold Wars and eventually gotten to
answering when we had time. Instead your statement came off other than you
probably intended it at the worst time under the worst circumstances for


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