Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Noel White]

Hey Lads.

I'm trying to decide how to arm my greek peltasts.
Reg C LMI JLS SH...
I have the option to add LTS to any.

I am aware of all the advantages of carrying LTS. It is usually the best game option. My question has more to do with historical use/results.

I am aware there are depections of peltast-types with longer spears in hand. How long? Who knows. Some Thracian peltast-types are depicted with them as well.

Does any one know of any accounts of peltasts holding and defeating enemy cavalry? Does anyone know of any accounts of peltasts frontally charging steady hoplites and winning (or at least not losing immediately)?

Please point my spear in the right direction!

Thank you.
Noel.

[John Murphy]

This whole question might devolve into some issues with terminology as it has been somewhat codified and in some ways misused by wargamers.

The term "peltast" derived, as everyone knows, from the shield carried by some of the lighter-armed auxiliaries, just as "hoplite" derived from the hoplon.

These lighter auxiliaries were often mercenary troops, or came to be such over time, and as time went on in many sources I believe the term "peltast" is often used simply to describe any mercenary infantry, the distinction in armament between "peltast" and "hoplite" becoming somewhat blurred as the mercenary auxiliaries got heavier and the troops of the phalanx got lighter. Many of our extant sources in translation could be rather arbitrary with terminology which does not make this any easier.

Sometimes we take things for convention as wargamers in order to make a game playable or to make a set of rules usable by a large community of players - and accept stuff like that the Romans suddenly started or stopped wearing armor in year X simply because when we get together to game socially we need to adopt some standards for what is to be expected. To some degree, not entirely, the distinction between "peltast" and "hoplite" might be one of those things. So when one asks a historical question like "did peltasts ever defeat hoplites in battle" it can get a bit murky.

I could be wrong, but this particular line of thought is something that was preached time and again to me by Tom Coveney whom I used to wargame with in California but who was first and foremost a "real live historian" with degrees in the field and everything.

"The Greek" probably would be a much better person to answer this question.

[Bill Chriss]

I agree with John's general description of the situation.

Demosthenes defeat and capture of Spartan hoplites at Sphacteria in the Peloponnesian War (see Thucydides) was accomplished with Messenian peltasts, albeit under circumstances quite adverse to the Spartans. He was also successful with the same troops in Aetolia in 427-6, I believe. I don't know much about Iphicrates' campaigns, but this (390?-360?) is around the time that LTS became common for "peltasts" or mercenaries.

Plutarch gives a clear account of Achaean Thureophoroi peltasts driving back Spartan cavalry in the late third century. In describing a battle with the Spartan Cleomenes near Mt. Lycaeum in the region of Megalopolis in 227, Plutarch differentiates between full-armed infantry and light armed soldiers, and it appears clear that the Achaeans had both thorakitai and thureophoroi in substantial numbers even during Aratus’ early generalship. The thureophoroi/evzones (or light-armed troops) were sufficiently effective in hand-to hand combat to have “driven the Lakedaemonians as far as their camp” in the battle. Likewise, Polybius says these evzones similarly ran off the Aetolian cavalry in the battle of Caphyae in 222.

Plutarch’s life of Aratus (250?-217?) describes him as wearing a corselet and describes his army as advancing in a long line with their armor reflecting the full moon. He also describes the Achaeans as holding spears in their right hand of sufficient size for a soldier to rest “his body upon it with his knee a little bent,” standing a good while in that posture.

Bottom line: LTS armed "peltasts" (loose formation infantry) began around the turn of the 4th century, but earlier peltasts did quite well against close order foot or even cavalry in bad terrain and other favorable circumstances. By 300 or so, it would be fairly common to find loose order foot armed with LTS and JLS or light throwing spear.

[Noel White]

Wow, very helpful Mr Greek.

That is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to get.
Lots of detail. A "probably" is all I can expect.

As far as John's answer, I think he's also right, but everything from the classical world is obscured by "murk". We have to start somewhere.

Thanks for your time, fellows.

Noel.

[Frank Gilson]

You'll find that most players will buy LTS for all peltast figures. That would not be true if simulating certain specific historical engagements, but I witness relatively little of that.

If you are not simulating history where your peltasts (or equivalent) would lack LTS, definitely buy it for all the figures.

It permits them to fight other LTS or P armed troops without suffering the -2.

They can receive a mounted charge far more effectively.

Frank