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Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
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caocao
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 Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: Out Scouting |
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What is the advantage of outscouting an enemy?
I put this in the tactics page and not in 'rule questions' because I didn't know how to ask it as a yes/no question. Plus, at base, I guess it is a tactics question - how do I use outscouting to my advantage?
If all my deployments have to be written down in advance then what possible advantage does it give me if my opponant has to deply first? My army is locked in to a deployment regardless of what he does.
But clearly there muest be some advantage. What is it? This question also apllies, to a lesser extent, when I have a scouting advantage and he must set up one of his commands first.
I play mongols a lot so out scout my opponants a lot.
confused,
Cao Cao |
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Mark Stone
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2102
Location: Buckley, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
how do I use outscouting to my advantage?
If all my deployments have to be written down in advance then what possible advantage does it give me if my opponant has to deply first? My army is locked in to a deployment regardless of what he does.
But clearly there muest be some advantage. What is it? This question also apllies, to a lesser extent, when I have a scouting advantage and he must set up one of his commands first.
confused,
Cao Cao |
There are several advantages to outscouting or having a scouting advantage. While deployments must be written down, they do not require you to write down the position of every unit. You must write down the "box" in which a command will deploy, but you only specify individual unit locations for units that are force marching or flank marching. Thereafter you are free to set up your remaining units as you wish within the box.
Now, this isn't a huge advantage if you have a fairly small box in which you must deploy. But you can construct boxes that give you a lot of flexibility if you think about it carefully.
I run a Later Paleologan Byzantine army with 3 commands. The deployment scheme I've settled upon works as follows:
divide the three commands into:
delaying skirmish wing
aggressive/attacking skirmish wing
strike force
divide the rear zone into a forward half and a rear half;
divide the forward half into a left half and a right half;
deploy commands in this order: (1) delaying wing, (2) aggressive wing, (3) strike force;
set up the delaying wing on one of the forward boxes;
set up the aggressive wing in another forward box;
set up the strke force in the rear box.
Note that if you do this, and you have a scouting advantage over your opponent, and your opponent has less than 4 generals, then your strike force can set up anywhere along your entire rear edge and will set up after your opponent has set up his entire army. That gives you enormous flexibility in a crucial part of your deployment.
As another example, my son and I have a Mongol army ready for next year's team event (so, 2000 pts). We have 6 generals, three of which are in 1 unit commands. We set those commands up first, meaning that 90% of our army will deploy after our opponents' entire army has been set up.
So, to summarize, there are a couple of themes here:
First, by choosing your deployment boxes carefully, you can leave lots of flexibility for how your later commands deploy.
Second, by choosing the order of your deployment correctly, you can deploy critical commands with maximal information about your opponent's deployment.
Finally, by having more generals and/or more scouting points than your opponent, you can work the first two points to maximum advantage.
Finally, keep in mind that an outscouted opponent cannot ambush, making it easier to see exactly his plan of battle is. Also, an outscouted opponent cannot force march within 240p of the center line, meaning if you force march some light troops carefully, you have excellent chances of really pinning him back and constraining his ability to maneuver.
-Mark Stone |
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Ewan McNay
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Location: Albany, NY, US
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Mark has, as ever, hit the key points with brevity, accuracy, and style.
Wait - he's not umpiring the NICT? Well, that was a waste  .
A couple of things to add; note that positioning of *your* force-marchers/ambushers has to be decided/noted before opposing deployment, even if you outscout the opposing army. Always annoyed me as the out-scouter  .
Second, note that out-scouting is reasonably rare. My Sassanids, for instance, have what I consider a large force of LC but only run ~80 scouts; so they only outscout ~26 opposing scout points. If your opponent has a 6E LC unit, a couple of HC units, and some LI, that is often enough to get them out of the outscouted range. Only really pure LC armies - like the Mongols - can count on reliably outscouting.
Third, note that nothing in the rules mandates that the rectangular boxes your commands are deployed in have to have their sides orthogonal to those of the table. This can be useful in some situations. The flip side is that those rectangular boxes place restrictions on force-marchers just like any other unit.
Fourth, note that the abilities to (i) deploy second and (ii) pin your opponent with aggressive force-marching are *hugely* complementary.
Last edited by Ewan McNay on Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Stone
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2102
Location: Buckley, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ewan McNay wrote: |
Third, note that nothing in the rules mandates that the rectangular boxes your commands are deployed in have to have their sides orthogonal to those of the table. This can be useful in some situations. |
I, too, have been a fan in the past of the "tilted rectangle" for certain deployment situations. However, my read is that this technique would now be illegal. To quote from 4.21, p. 20: "The position of commands must be specified from right to left and front to rear. None can overlap laterally except that an entire command may deploy entirely behind another."
The use of the terms "laterally" and "behind" here entails that only rectangles parallel to the sides and rear would meet these condititions. Note that this is a change (or if you prefer a clarification) with the release of the new rule book.
There are many of these clarifications in the new rule book. As another example, the Greek noted that making a hill rocky now requires two terrain picks, not just one. I strongly encourage everyone who will be at Historicon next week to give the new rule book a careful, cover to cover reading as I have done over these past several weeks. Otherwise you may be in for a few rude surprises.
-Mark Stone |
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Cao_Cao
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: thanks for the helpful replies |
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Got it. Makes sense. thanks.
caocao |
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Ewan McNay
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: Albany, NY, US
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Mark noted:
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| The use of the terms "laterally" and "behind" here entails that only rectangles parallel to the sides and rear would meet these condititions. Note that this is a change (or if you prefer a clarification) with the release of the new rule book. |
Agreed; I've tried to find a construction which would permit other arrangements, and there don't seem to be (useful/relevant) exceptions. Nice catch.
It does seem as though the rules have changed far more than I expected/realised; almost makes me wish I were flying to Lancaster and had some reading time to devote  . Scott is going to get a lot of questions! I need to try to 'start fresh' again and not assume that any previous versions of rules have remained - tough to do, but necessary.[/b] |
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