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Swiss

 
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Tom McMillen
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Swiss

Does anyone know of good detailed info on the Swiss in English? Unlike , say, Attila, the hard info is there, almost a the level of the ECW, but its hard to find. I have One Million Mercenaries, but that concentrates on the later periods of French service.
In a library years ago I ran across an Embleton/McBride book of the 'faces of Battle through the ages' type, which had a detailed first person account of a soldier at Grandson as a chapter.Have been unable to locate it since.
I also have a biography of Bayard that has footnotes that refer to works in German with very detailed info, such as who the standard bearers for each division were.
Thanks for any help- Tom

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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject:

Tom,

This probably is too generic for what you are looking for, but others interested in the Swiss would enjoy it.

C.W.C. Oman - The Art of War in the Middle Ages.

Actually includes much more than the Swiss - Medieval cavalry, English Longbow, Byzantine tactics, etc...

Todd Kaeser

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Tom McM
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Swiss

Thanks Todd for the reply, appreciate it. Yes, Oman, Taylor, and Delbruck remain the standards , a little disocncerting now that all are about 100 years old. (!)
I recently researched the lesser known French Wars of Religion, and found no less than 4 good books published in the last 10 tears, with all sorts of recent scholarship. The best, by Professor Wood of Amherst, gives hard data for the # of companies and precise percentages of army composition of Gendarmes, Reiters, Lt Cav, Swiss, and French Infantry at the start of each war and at every major engagement.
But nothing nearly comparable for the Swiss. - Tom
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Siward
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject:

I have been trying to find some good sources for the Swiss during the Swabian Wars......also no luck. Would love to here any info on readily available books for this period. Really looking for in depth historical works rather than generic histories.



Cheers........Geoff
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Tom McMillen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Swiss

>>[quote="Siward"]I have been trying to find some good sources for the Swiss during the Swabian Wars......also no luck. Would love to here any info on readily available books for this period. Really looking for in depth historical works rather than generic histories.>>

The Swabian Wars would be really tough. Its hard enough to find good info on the Burgundian or Italian Wars.
Consider this quote, cited from Shellabarger's history of Bayard,discussing Marignano, from de Valliere's Histoire des Suisses en Service Etranger-
Enveloped in Smoke, elbow to elbow, pressing about their flags, they retired unbeaten, with the same firmly regular step, heads up, rage at heart, bruised, but not broken, by the tempest of the French squadrons. Between them and the high-raod to Milan, the Spazzola canalbarred their march and turned them at bay during its passage. The spectacle was one of terrible beauty. Riven at close quarters by a powerful attacking artillery, while on all sides swept around them the attacking cavalry, the Swiss thought only of saving their standards. The sacred colors are passed from hand to hand, sink in the storm, are reaised and float again, blood -stained shreds, broken flagstaffs, warm still in the grasp of the dying.
There Moritz Gerber, ensign of Appenzell, mortally wounded, hid in his breast the precious colors before expiringThere fell the three bannerets of Zurich, Jacob meiss, James Schwend, and the Knight of Escher, but the banner, demy argent and azure, was saved. Saved also was the flag of Unterwalden and that of Basel at the price of the life of John Baer . Around the sacred banner of Wallis and the Bear of Bern the bodies heap up. Hugo von Hallwyl and Peter Frisching, captains of Bernese volunteers, died heroically. The gigantic Rudolph von Salis, covered in wounds, sank wrapped in the folds of the Grisons' standard....'

DAMN! I want an English translation of that book!!
So Siward, how's yer French? &) - Tom

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Siward
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
So Siward, how's yer French? &) - Tom

Non existant Crying or Very sad

Thanks heaps for the small quote though....very inspirational.


Cheers.........Geoff
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Tom McMillen
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Swiss

>>Thanks heaps for the small quote though....very inspirational.

Cheers.........Geoff>>

It is indeed a remarkable quote. I mean, this isn't Gettysburg, there were no 'correspondents'. Did someone say ' Did you catch how Moritz grabbed that flag before he died?' and if so who wrote it down, and how was it passed on? Obviously some sort of 'chronicles', and they would be damn interesting reading.
It just tells us that , unlike most of the Ancients period, (who were the standard bearers who dropped the Aquilae at the Teutoburgewald?- Good luck with that one!) there is an incredible amount of 'hard info' about this period available, if we only had access to it. - Tom

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Brennus Galatia
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: swiss

Hi Tom, I also had the same problem. There is a short section on generic History of the Swiss in George Gush's Renaissance Armies but thats out of print. I also have the Thousand Mercenaries & the Osprey Swiss at War.

I found a few bits of information by searching on the net by placing a search under 'medieval swiss' and also found images of Grandson and Murten castle sites.

One source you may want to try[if you have not already] is Caliver books.
I found a series of books on the Burgundian Dukes;the last one of course on old Chad the bold-this covers his road to his demise so might be on the lines your looking for[the authors line is agood contrast to thousand mercenaries].
Lastly there is the DBA Fanaticus site that does have 3 scenarios for Grandson,Murten & Nancy.

Sadly there is little available on Hericourt orany of the earlier battles in print in English.
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Brennus1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: Swiss

Here is an update Tom, Try the Wikipedia site; it has lots of info including entries on Swiss battles pre-Burgundian wars plus links to Swiss warfare & tactics. again I led my search by entering 'medieval swiss'.
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