Warrior Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
 
  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups AlbumAlbum   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Help with a list
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Help with a list

Hi All,
Dave "The Theban" Clopp here, I Thouht I would get some discussion going here again, as some of you are aware My Theban and Persian army was stolen/borrowed along with some other items from my car late last year.
I am almost finished with my representation of Cyrus the Youngers army, and have purchased a Hellenistic Greek army that is being started this week.
I am looking for help with a list to Build for a Latter Classical Greek Army Theban preferably and now that I mention it I am not a fan of Sparta.
I am not looking for a beat all list just something that will at least give me a chance for something better that my normal 5-0/5-1.
YES I am aware I am asking alot but I am hopful.
And No Kelly I have not tryed storm of seagulls or what ever the new rules are from Osprey Laughing like I said that is like ordering a steak from a fast food chain and expecting it to taste like Delmonicos Laughing .
Thanking you all in advance and hopeing you all are well Very Happy .
Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1018

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Theban list

This is a man after my own heart. He picks his armies from his heart and not these mercenary list guys who try to find the ultimate killer army list.
I unfortunately have not looked at the list but I am sure that Todd the list man and Frank the knowing and Mark the meticulous will help you.
Iwill stay tuned to see what they say, since I can always learn from them.
Ed the seeker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Bill Chriss
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1000
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject:

You are the man, Dave! You have precisely my tastes here. I have several (and I do mean several) Greek lists you can pore through. The problem is that they are in excel format. If I can figure out how to upload the best of the Theban/Epaminondas lists here, I will do so. My advice: enjoy the Later hoplite list and forced march most of your hoplites, using terrain judiciously, but in Open tournaments consider using the Hellenistics, an amy with a similar feel, look, and nationality that is more serviceable and durable against a larger number of opponents. Read up on Philopoemen. He was almost as cool as Epaminondas and Pelopidas.
_________________
-Greek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Bill Chriss
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1000
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject:

Here is my latest take on Epaminondas/Thebes with a Thessalian ally in yellow and a subgen. I'm not real sure about the Hamippoi, so might change that. Let me know if anything is unclear or I need to explain. One more piece of advice: don't try this in 15mm!
_________________
-Greek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Hi Guys
Thanks for the responces, sorry about the delayed responces but 2 of my
Daughters and my 4 month old grandson Cool have moved back home and I seem to have lost my PC privilages for the moment Laughing

Ed you are correct the classical era/period is my favorite I always let my heart lead, if not I purchases the newest cool toy and can not get them painted (FOW as an example) as they seem like a chore and with so much stress in real life and so little tim to game I have come back to somthing I Love.

Bill, as always Thanks you are one of the all time great guys. I will try to get to PA in 09 to meet up with you guys and play in the tournament. I do not get much proctice do to life and the new craze of FOW/storm of sea gull bombs here in KC, but after I finish my greeks up I will put out the challenge because I love when the guy drub me with a 5-0.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject:

Hi Guys
Thanks for the responces, sorry about the delayed responces but 2 of my
Daughters and my 4 month old grandson Cool have moved back home and I seem to have lost my PC privilages for the moment Laughing

Ed you are correct the classical era/period is my favorite I always let my heart lead, if not I purchases the newest cool toy and can not get them painted (FOW as an example) as they seem like a chore and with so much stress in real life and so little tim to game I have come back to somthing I Love.

Bill, as always Thanks you are one of the all time great guys. I will try to get to PA in 09 to meet up with you guys and play in the tournament. I do not get much proctice do to life and the new craze of FOW/storm of sea gull bombs here in KC, but after I finish my greeks up I will put out the challenge because I love when the guy drub me with a 5-0.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Dave "The Theban"

Sorry to hear about your lead. I would be rather sad myself if that happened to me.

Is this Late Hoplite army going to be in 15mm or 25mm?

Here is my go at the list. Mind all of you that this area (hoplites) are not my normal walking stick, but I would love to see them work.

Theben (as per request Very Happy )

CinC Reb B HC Jls - 118
Sub 2E Reg B HC Jls - 95

4E Sacred Band Reg A MI LTS,Sh - 106
5x 6E Boiotian Hoplites Reg C MI LTS,Sh - 106 (530)
6E Ipicratid Hoplites Reg C LMI LTS,Sh - 106
4x 4E Greek Peltasts Reg C LMI LTS,Jls,Sh - 90 (360)

6E slingers Reg C LI S,Sh - 58
4E slingers Reg C LI S,Sh - 42
4x 2E javelinmen Reg C LI Jls,Sh - 26 (104)
2x 2E Greek Cav Reg B LC Jls - 38 (76)

A few thoughts. I thought as a Theban you would want the Sacred Band - if not then another 6E hoplite unit or ipicratid unit would be the same points.

If this is for 15mm then more of the Ipicratid hoplites for greater movement.

I would throw tons of Unfortified Builtup Areas, Marsh, steep hills to reduce the frontage of the army. I'm not sold on the Thessilians as HC w/ Jls (even fighting 1.5 ranks is effective as a shock troop). The reg B Greek should be able to counter out of the way in most situations and can at least keep some flanks or opposing LI honest.

I like the quantity of lights - you'll need them to fill space and terrain. I also am a big fan of peltasts. They're awesome in rough terrain as you will be throwing a ton of it. The Boiotian hoplites are capable of being 6 ranks deep, but the real purpose of being 6E is the ability to contract/expand and get full movement.

I would agree w/ the Greek that Hellenistics might be the better option for an open tournament, but you are painting them out of love and not playability - you'd obviously like both though.

I hope this was in any way helpful. At least, if you are like me, seeing how another person tackles a list is always enjoyable.

Sincerely,

Todd K

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Any other lists interest you?

Todd K

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1018

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: hoplite list

Ok you guys have talked me into it. I can't take the pressure you have put upon me. I will give in . I will spill the beans. Laughing
Memmon will muster his Spartans and has hired Xenophon and the 10,000, and will lead them to the Council Tourney at Schnectady. Ed the Rash will be transformed into Ed the Spartan. I like Dave make my list from the heart.
Now that Todd the listman has given me some precious info about forced marching and lots of terrain.
Matt, my son, my other Listman. Made a 1200pt list for me. I will upgrade it to 1600pt.
You all have fired me up for Hoplites. Shocked Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1018

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Hoplite

Yo
I am looking at my list of Spartans and Todd's list of Thebans. Question.
Why not have the Hoplites in 8E blocks ??
Why not front rank HI??
Will the block hold at 6E and MI??
I see the advantage of expanding out and contracting.
Ed the Spartan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Ed the Spartan.

Some of it comes from personal tastes. 8E blocks are fine, but 6E blocks are more flexible. Also w/ the Boiotian hoplites they can form column and fight 1/4 of each rank past the 2nd and hit w/ 12 if need be.

HI is a lot of points IMO and you might need to have 100+ points elsewhere to cover table. Hoplites already need to be shot for 3 cpf in order to be halted and that would be 72 casualties - which is difficult to do.

I just don't think the HI is worth the lost table space and hoplites are pretty tough anyway.

I'm am very happy to hear that you are coming the Council of 5 nations on the 11th. I'll be there from eastern MA - leaving around 5:30 AM on march moves for the 3 hour trip. I'll have some extra fatigue, but gaming is worth the trip.

Maybe we'll even do battle across the table - it has been a while and I have yet to face Ed the Rash.

Todd K

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject:

Hi All
Sorry about the delay, My PC time is at work now (Teens and young adults are useing my PC and Laptop continually. My Plans are for 15mm and 25 armys with the interchangable blocks so I can change the list around. My main intrest is in Theban lists for Clasical and Hellenistic eras I know most people are interested in Sparta but I have never been interested. I will be back on latter its time to go back to work.
Thank You All Dave "The Theban" Clopp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject:

Hi Guy
I made it back, Lunch time so I am getting some thoughts down (I left lunch at home on the kitchen counter/island hope the cat likes it Embarassed ).
Originally My list for 1600pt was before the Figures were stolen Evil or Very Mad .

C IN C HC,JLS W 2 REGULAR “B” HC,JLS = 118 PTS
Greek Cavalry; 4E, REG “C”, HC,JLS = 106PTS
Sacred Band, 4E, MI, LTS, SA, SH, REG “A” = 106PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES: 4E, MI, REG “B”, LTS, SH, SA = 90PTS
PELTAST; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
PELTAST; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 2E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 26PTS
JAVLINMEN; 2E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 26PTS
THRACIAN PELTAST; 4E, IRREG “B” JLS,SA,SH = 73PTS
THRACIAN PELTAST; 4E, IRREG “B” JLS,SA,SH = 73PTS
SLINGERS; 4E, SLING,SA,SH,REG “C” = 42PTS
TOTAL POINTS = 1,578 POINTS

I would use a river or steep hill on flank and 3 woods/hill in center.
being a newer player (played lots of 4th,5th and 6th ed WRG The LGS I used to go too in Southern Cal no one used 7th ed).
This is the army was all 15mm Xyston Figures and I am now in the process of getting my figure order ready.
Well Again Thank you all for the assistance I am looking to try The Greeks list in 25mm it seems to have some very interesting potential.
and the other list looks very interesting.
Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
cloppdave
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Springhill Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Hi Guy
I made it back, Lunch time so I am getting some thoughts down (I left lunch at home on the kitchen counter/island hope the cat likes it Embarassed ).
Originally My list for 1600pt was before the Figures were stolen Evil or Very Mad .

C IN C HC,JLS W 2 REGULAR “B” HC,JLS = 118 PTS
Greek Cavalry; 4E, REG “C”, HC,JLS = 106PTS
Sacred Band, 4E, MI, LTS, SA, SH, REG “A” = 106PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES; 12E, MI, Theban Taught Boiatian, REG “B”, LTS,SH,SA = 250PTS
HOPLITES: 4E, MI, REG “B”, LTS, SH, SA = 90PTS
PELTAST; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
PELTAST; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 4E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 42PTS
JAVLINMEN; 2E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 26PTS
JAVLINMEN; 2E, LI, JLS, REG “C”, SH, SA = 26PTS
THRACIAN PELTAST; 4E, IRREG “B” JLS,SA,SH = 73PTS
THRACIAN PELTAST; 4E, IRREG “B” JLS,SA,SH = 73PTS
SLINGERS; 4E, SLING,SA,SH,REG “C” = 42PTS
TOTAL POINTS = 1,578 POINTS

I would use a river or steep hill on flank and 3 woods/hill in center.
being a newer player (played lots of 4th,5th and 6th ed WRG The LGS I used to go too in Southern Cal no one used 7th ed).
This is the army was all 15mm Xyston Figures and I am now in the process of getting my figure order ready.
Well Again Thank you all for the assistance I am looking to try The Greeks list in 25mm it seems to have some very interesting potential.
and the other list looks very interesting.
Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1211
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Dave,

Just some thoughts to consider - I am not an expert when it comes to classical armies. With a dose of salts consider my thoughts please...

Obviously you would want the Thracians in the brush, but they are some real targets for lancers - even HC lancers at that.

Peltasts IMO would serve better in that role of filling the gaps. The Irreg B thracians do give you something to throw at elephants that does not exist in my list so there is that in your list. I am a fan of Peltasts - many on this forum would not like them as much as I.

I personally don't like the 4E HC unit - I don't know what purpose it serves truthfully. It only fights one rank and not well at that. It is too bad the list does not allow for HC L, but such is life.

The 12E units are incredibly tough, but if I'm in a tournament I would try my darndest to avoid those 3 big units and try to kill everyone else for the 5-something victory.

Understandibly you would want the "B" grade morale, but that is an additional 144 points - a peltast unit and then some.

Just some thoughts - hope it is helpful. I hope to someday have a hoplite army myself and will then learn how to fight w/ them. I wish you the luck of the gods.

Todd K

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group