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Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
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Kelly Wilkinson
Dictator
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4172
Location: Raytown, MO
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 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:46 pm Post subject: Ranking 2nd Punic War Carthaginians |
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Could anyone tell me how they feel the 2nd Punic War Carthaginians fare against their period opponents? Thinking about painting one of these up to fight my Romans/Latins/Spanish....
Additonally, how have they fared in open competition?
KW |
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Mark Stone
Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2102
Location: Buckley, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Carthaginians should do very well in period if you take all the elephants and some regular LMI HTW,JLS,Sh guys. Against barbarian trash you can absorb the initial blow with the LMI and the African spearmen (though the latter should avoid barbarian HTW guys). Then when impetuousity has thus been defused, the elephants can pile on in a subsequent bound. Against Romans of the period you can use the elephants right up front in tandem with the LMI, and also exploit the fact that you'll hold way more frontage than the Roman player will.
In open play the complete lack of missile power is a problem, and definitely hurts you against opponents who have missiles in abundance. I still thing it's a much tougher army in open play than people give it credit for, and ought to really tear into pike-elephant or elephant-heavy armies. Knight armies are a bit more challenging, but the African spearmen, particularly with elephants nearby to cast a disordering effect on knights, are very sturdy in this matchup. |
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lilroblis
Legionary
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 570
Location: Cleveland Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: Carthos in open |
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Folks - Carthaginian does very well in open - I have worn two of the last 3 minis at Cold wars using them.
Fun list - not sure it gets that much better in 1600 points, at least B+ but struggles against the good mounted armies - less so knights by themselves. but good lights will give them fits |
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Kelly Wilkinson
Dictator
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4172
Location: Raytown, MO
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: Rob |
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Rob and Mark,
Thanks for your input. Could either of you post your favorite list and possibly share your reasoning for the choices you made? I'm always interested in Veteran players thoughts regarding lists.
Kelly |
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Mark Stone
Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2102
Location: Buckley, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kelly Wilkinson wrote: |
Rob and Mark,
Thanks for your input. Could either of you post your favorite list and possibly share your reasoning for the choices you made? I'm always interested in Veteran players thoughts regarding lists.
Kelly |
Here's a version I was tinkering with back in 2010. I don't promise it jives with current errata, but it should be close:
CinC: 2 Irr B/C El, crew of 2 w/JLS
Sub: 1 Reg B LC JLS,Sh
Sub: 1 Irr B LC JLS,Sh
Numidians 2 Reg B LC JLS,Sh
Numidians 4 Reg C LC JLS,Sh
African Spear 6 Reg B HI/MI LTS,Sh
African Spear 6 Reg B HI/MI LTS,Sh
Numidians 6 Irr C LI JLS,Sh
Balaeric slingers 2 Reg C LI S,Sh
Balaeric slingers 2 Reg C LI S,Sh
Balaeric slingers 2 Reg C LI S,Sh
Balaeric slingers 2 Reg C LI S,Sh
Elephants 2 Irr C 2 crew of 2 w/JLS
Elephants 2 Irr C 2 crew of 2 w/JLS
Elephants 3 Irr C 2 crew of 2 w/JLS
Spanish 5 Irr D 1 Irr C LI JLS,Sh
Spanish Scutari 4 Reg C LMI HTW,JLS,Sh
Spanish Scutari 4 Reg C LMI HTW,JLS,Sh
Spanish Scutari 4 Reg C LMI HTW,JLS,Sh
Celteberians 4 Irr B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh
Celteberians 4 Irr B LMI HTW,JLS,Sh
1597 points
19 units + 2 staff elements
34 scouting points
This gives you enough LI to have an entire front line that is just an LI screen. Because all the LI are shielded, and can shoot shielded when in skirmish, it's pretty tough to drive them back with just shooting. You're going to have to either bring up line troops to force them to recall, or use mounted to charge them off.
Against conventional wisdom, you use your light cav in the second line. Because you lack "real" heavy cav (guys who can fight rank and a half) you have to use your light cav to backstop your light infantry. That will at least give your opponent pause before he tries to charge off your LI with his LC.
Behind this screen you look for targets of opportunity. There is almost nothing that can stand in the face of your elephants working in tandem with the regular Spanish LMI. Pikes don't want to face the combined arms attack of the elephants and LMI charging together. Knights don't want to face the elephants. Other elephants don't want to get tangled up with your elephants only to have the LMI come in on a subsequent bound. Enemy shooters eager to get at the elephants don't want to face the LMI. You get the idea.
With 9 elephants you can project a broad presence, but you can't covery everything. That's where the African spearmen come in. You upgrade them to the max: front rank HI, and Reg B throughout. Thus configured, they don't really fear anything other than enemy HTW or pike in column, and you have other troops who can deal with those threats.
The Celteberians act as a reserve, to be thrown in against exposed flanks or overlaps, depending on the situation.
So:
* Throw a screen of LI in your opponent's face, backed by a bit of LC to stiffen things up;
* Once your screen has pinned the enemy, commit the elephants and LMI where they can do the most damage;
* Where the elephants aren't, put the African spearmen to hold the line and/or slowly yield ground. |
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Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks
I have Cartho figs down stairs .
After this list I think I will try and get started painting.
Ed the Cartho |
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Kelly Wilkinson
Dictator
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4172
Location: Raytown, MO
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: Thanks Mark! |
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Mark,
Thanks so very much for sharing your list and reasoning regarding your choices. To be honest, I hadn't really considered the Regular Spanish. The "C" morale and Loose order status always worried me in the open especially in the face of nasty old mtd. lancers! but If I hold them back in a supporting role for the elephants, they may just be the ticket. You've given me many good things to think about. Thanks very much!
Kelly |
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lilroblis
Legionary
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 570
Location: Cleveland Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: Carthaginians |
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So in 1200 points I run 3 units of 3 stands elephants - with Hannibal as general
3 units of Reg C LC 2 units of li jls,sh 4 units of irrA/IrrC lmi HTW,jls,sh and one unit of spearmen - it is a blast |
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