Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

WOW
You guys have a dizzying intellect. Shocked

Ed the dizzied

Terry D · Recruit Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Posts: 77

Using Todd's example but with Mongol LC and Mongol HC behind.

H
H

I I
I I
L L L
L L L

M
M

HC. Charges LC
Mongol cav charges LI
Is the end result both loose order cav charge each other?

derekcus · Recruit Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 50

Wow.

Derek

Frank Gilson · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject:

Todd Kaeser · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject:

Ok - another thought:

B
B
AAAAAA
AAAAAA
XX......X
XX......X

Unit B is HC
Unit A is LI

Units X are LC

When the B HC units charges through to hit the 4E X LC unit - how does it wind up?

AAAAAA
AAAAAA
B...... X
B...... X
XX
XX

Does the 2E X LC unit get pulled forward the 60mm (depth of 2 element HC unit)

And you are allowing the 4E X LC unit to fight overlaps?

IF: There is another unit of HC - say unit C hitting the 2E LC unit in flank

B
B
AAAAAA
AAAAAA
XX......X CC
XX......X

Does it end up like so?

AAAAAA
AAAAAA
B
B
XX......XCC
XX......X

The LI would be replaced and would be fighting no on right?

Todd

scott holder · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject:

I hate you people.

All this tells me is that it might be simpler to do it element-by-element...until I get tons of pidgin diagrams explaining why that isn't the case.

I don't find these diagrams particularly helpful either. I don't follow Terry's at all, hence can't answer Franks hypothetical (grrr) question.

Todd, it would also be better if you posted ONE HYPOTHETICAL AT A TIME! Your first one I'd arrange like this:

AAA
AAA
B.....AA
B.....AA
XX.....X
XX ....X

or possibly like this to keep "A" in contact with something other than corner to corner:

AA
AAA
B.. AAA
B.....AA
XX.....X
XX ....X

And yes, according to my train of thought already expressed above, the 4E LC unit (X) would fight overlap. Again, please read what I've already posted.

As for your second example, I agree with the conclusions you've outlined.

Derek, care to opine more than just "wow"?

scott

derekcus · Recruit Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 50

Oh no. Everyone is doing just fine. The Oracle is on it.

lilroblis

All my concerns are shared - this one is complex - so I look forward to someone being able to say what happens when - but I like the element approach - just want to know when I use which approach

Todd Kaeser · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject:

Another concern about replacement - sorry to bring about more "hate" our beloved ChUmp Wink

BUT I want to know as much about this so when we play in tournaments we roughly know how to do this.

If a unit gets replaced and there is another unit to its rear

B CC
B
AAAAAA
AAAAAA
XX......X
XX......X

Unit B is HC
Unit A is LI
Unit C is MI

Units X are LC

When the B HC units charges through to hit the 4E X LC unit - how does it wind up? Unit A is a LI unit that is allowed to interpenetrate the MI.

AAAAAA
AAAAAA
B...CC..X
B.........X
XX
XX

Understandibly - even if you remove the additional LC unit (2E X unit) would the LI interpenetrate the MI (C) unit when replaced?

Todd

Todd Kaeser · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject:

I thought I'd ask another question to ponder.

The charging unit that is replacing is considered at first contact. In the past it was my understanding that due to this rule the unit receiving the charge would NOT receive overlap in fighting.

..B
..B
..AAAAAA
..AAAAAA
XX
XX

A is LI
B is HC
X is LC

1st turn the LC pushed the LI back and opted to not expand (for whatever reason to not complicate the already complicated diagram)

2nd turn the B HC unit charges through and A LI is replaced and moves to the rear.

..AAAAAA
..AAAAAA
..B
..B
XX
XX

In the past as B is fighting as in first contact that would preclude unit X from fighting with the overlap as B was at first contact. I could be wrong and I've been misplaying this.

Todd

scott holder · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject:

Are you not reading my posts? Per your second question, I've already answered that and gave my thought process about how it's different than "how we've been playing it."

As for your first question, I wouldn't allow the replacement in combat to take place because of the positioning of that MI unit. I'll let the LI "move back" after being interpenetrated once but not let it either teleport way back (behind the MI) (thus having a second "interpenetration event") or even displace the MI back so that the LI sits in front of it.

Why? It's getting too complicated and I've lost my patience with all this hypothetical crap on a portion of the game that's been this way SINCE THE BEGINNING all under the guise of "but I just want to know about this slim-chance-of-happening-event" before a tournament.

The more I think about this, the more I think I haven't been consistent over the years. While Fred states he's been on the receiving end of having an entire unit break contact during a replace-in-combat situation, I know over the years I've also done it on an element-by-element basis.

I've also gone back on some recent email conversations with Bill and Frank and we were already going to change this to element-by-element. That will be part of a broader set of updates that have been planned. This will be in regards to replacing in combat ONLY so don't post anything about precedent and what this might portend for the rest of the game.

Further, no more diagrams like this. You want a question answered either attach a powerpoint diagram with nice little blocks and colors representing elements/units or a photo of figures that clearly shows what your question is.

That's it for this thread as well, I'm locking it.

scott