Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

Sounds like you enjoyed yourself and shook off a lot of rust!

[jamiepwhite]

The current fashion of the month rage of Granada was that list I was running.

You didn't miss an opportunity on dismounted knights because the adjacent knight was chasing away your general. Nobody likes nonimpetuous charges into steady foot. 5@5 is 20, 6@3 is 15. No room to expand so second round is 3 @ 3 vs 6 @ 1. All EHI foot is annoying on the second bound.

[LarryEssick]

Well, there you go then. I guess I played it right.

After the game I thought that I had remembered them dismounting while in charge reach. I was wondering if I should have charged while they were still disordered hitting them 5@6 v 6@1.

Better to see that I played it right during the game than that my memory is failing so soon after the game. A failing memory gives me all sorts of excuses....

[Ed Kollmer]

Having memory lapses after the games is understandable.
My memory lapses usually happen DURING the game.

[jamiepwhite]

Those three knights started off dismounted and just one missed his counter to remount. Impetuously charging against disordered knights in that tight space was not a good choice and I think you rightly chose to skirmish away that bound.

It's funny, but that 0 - 0 draw was probably one of the better played games we've had over the years. You didn't take any unnecessary risks, denied me any opportunity to follow up on lucky shooting dice, and I did the same in return, stayed on my hill and in the woods, kept my bowman shielded, didn't take risks, etc. The Oracle would have been amazed even, no weird charges with either CinC.

[Mark Stone]

[LarryEssick]

Jamie notes that the knights missed a counter. For whatever reason he must have elected to pass by the approach phase. Regardless, as I remember it we discussed several times that the dismount but not the remount required prompting. I'm certain that prompting had nothing to do with the remount.

[Terry D]

[jamiepwhite]

210 scouting to 36 scouting, he had double but I think he forgot about the list rule to remove terrain. I had a brush to camp on the other side, if he was removing terrain he probably would have removed the brush and hill.

As I remember, Larry's mounted was moving second, so I stayed still during approaches and just relied on the RA/B Granada knights making counters to remount. Two remounted, which was good enough.

That pesky brush was in the way, so I couldn't charge impetuous and it made Larry disordered when he charged.

Here's a little diagram of my side

Brush................Hill...................Woods

The bow and assorted foot were on the hill and strung out to the woods, the dismounted knights were tucked in facing the flank behind the hill. Larry rode over the brush and was trying to get an advantage on the stationary knights.


Actually, you do raise an interesting question about removing terrain. If you had been Larry, what you have removed? I would definitely remove the hill, but the brush or woods is a tough call.

[Frank Gilson]

Well, first off is table side choice...I attempt to get the side with the hill (if we're using the updated NASAMW deployment rules). With +3 on the die roll I should get it as Mongol.

That said, I would have used the Mongol list rules to remove the Woods and the Hill, absolutely...and then sent a flank march down the flank with the Brush as that's your only anchoring terrain left...of course I may have failed to remove either or both of the hill and woods based on die rolls!

Frank

[Frank Gilson]

Here follows my Mongol list (working version) with some commentary:
CinC PA 2E Reg A/B HC/MC L,B,Sh/L,B 185
Sub P 2E Reg A EHC/HC L,B,Sh 134
Sub P 2E Reg A/B EHC/MC L,B,Sh/L,B 119
3x4E Reg C HC/MC L,B,Sh/L,B 390
3x 2E Reg B LC JLS,B/B 126
5x6E Reg C LC B 410
8E Irr C LC B (Turks) 89
6E Reg C LC B (Turks) 82
4E Reg C LC B (Turks) 58 = 1593
17 units, 3 cmds, 180 scouting
The Turks are there to round out scouting point total and table coverage. They don't do anything fancy. The third general is there to make sure I can send two flank marches in strength (very rare) or at least keep two generals on table and send one flank march in strength.

180 scouting points should do what you want when you need to, double the enemy in order to use the list rule to remove 1 or 2 pieces of terrain. You'll also get a benefit of outscouting most opponents. Enemy that are not doubled by you because they have a lot of scouting of their own will have to thus have a lot of LC and similar problems with terrain that you have.

There is a core of loose order cavalry that will very often end up fighting dismounted as HI/MI LTS,B,Sh/LTS,B, very strong.

With the army you need to be able to 'ignore' most of the table, and coordinate a solid flank march against the flank you also attack with your remaining loose order cavalry.

If you don't flank march, you'll find you have trouble against most armies getting any kind of result.

Remove the terrrain. Flank March. Support the arrival with the pressure you have that remains.

Frank

[Terry D]

[Terry D]

[Frank Gilson]

You'll note I only have EHC on the two sub generals at a 'waste' of only 8 points. I don't routinely put generals in danger of needing to adopt skirmish formation, and should I make such a mistake I can roll a 2-6 to counter. One of them (or possibly both) will be leading a flank march and be out of danger in any event for some time. EHC is crucial in some combat factors...so I use a little bit to gain that 'sometimes' advantage.

No Turk SG is permitted as I have upgraded some Turk LC to Reg, AND no Turkish SG is necessary as I do not have over 12E of Irr Turkish LC. I have the 8E Irr max permitted (as I have upgraded some to Reg).

You'll note I have purchased the 36 native Mongol LC elements already, and, unable to get any more, must turn to the Turks.

Yes, I could get some LCm or MCm and then make some Mongol cav camel proof, that's a gimmick that can be done. I've tried it in the past and the 'slowness' of the camels is a handicap for them, plus no savvy (most now) opponent would let you get a cheap disorder plus then disorder from shooting...so no camels.

[LarryEssick]

I knew about the list rule to remove terrain but did not know how it worked with pre-set terrain. I made a passing inquiry about it to Derek before the tournament started without pressing it and without getting a clear "here's how you do it now" type of answer.

Chalk it up to re-learning the game. I still don't know the answer. Regardless, I played all 3 games on the tables as they were without moving any of the terrain.