Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Frank Gilson · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: Nikephoran Byzantine

I ran Nikephoran at various points, with SHC, without, with Skutatoi close foot...without.

I think you're best with no Skutatoi.

CinC PA 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,B,Sh 201
Sub similar 131
4x2E Reg B EHC/HC L,B,Sh 376
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh 88
3x 4E Reg B(1 A) LHI/LMI 2HCW,JLS,Sh 378
2x4E Reg D(1 C) LI JLS,Sh 72
2x6E Reg D(1 C) LC B 144
4E Reg D(1 C) LC B 52
2x2E Reg B LC B 76
7E Irr C LC B 81 = 1599
18 units, 2 cmds, 99 scouting

If you want combined arms of Varangians and SHC you can fiddle to run a SHC/EHC unit...but I often found the SHC having to 'hide'.

LC are 'fluffy' flank(s) while the LI handle terrain you don't operate in and the Varangians supported by lancer go to a vulnerable point of the enemy army to kill it.

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

Hmmmm.......
Nike Byz...... My kind of army....
I need more LI jls, sh.......
Edwardus is going to try this list.....
Hopefully against TimCorvinus.... and his dastardly Hungarians .
EK

Frank Gilson · Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: bzyantine rules

Make sure to read through the Bzyantine rules for the lancers and the Varangians just before playing.

In particular the lancers and Varangians can Charge the same target, which may matter against an infantry Opponent.

Frank

Todd Kaeser · Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject:

Nik Byzantine appeals to me greatly.

Lots of regular troops and flexibility - and opportunity for shooting.

It is an army with great variety for sure. While you have looked at to skut or not to skut I would also think you would have the option for LMI bowmen as well.

If one was going with the no skut option I would have 2 less heavy or extra-heavy cavalry units in return for bowmen (some of with javelins possibly - don't have the list in front of me).

Love the 7E unit of LC - that extra element (if points are available) is a game changer in shooting with other LC units.

I would be okay running the skuts as well - they are tough troops and with LTS,Jls,D,Sh they can be particularly nasty. I know Derek runs them as Reg D with just LTS and works his magic around them.

Maybe a future run with Byzantines..... hmmmmm....

Todd

Frank Gilson · Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject:

Give it a shot, Todd, at least at home.

In terms of Skutatoi, though, they are just slow and don't mesh with the rest of the army...

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

OK. Being the humble Warrior player. I will open myself up for massive criticism .
This is the list that I was thinking of playing against TimG's Hungarians (list made by Meister Kaeser).

HW #2 Nike Byzantine
Warm Sct
2El Edwardus L,B,sh+HC,L,B,sh 2 200
2El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 6 38
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Penchnegs LC I/C 1/2 Jls,B,sh, 18 97
1/2 B
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kats EHC,RegB,L,sh 78
4El Psiloi,LI,RegC,B,sh 2 42

2El Michael RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37
6El Psiloi RgD,LMI,B,1/2sh 70

2El Demitri RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37

May the criticism begin..... Laughing

Ed the Byzantinopile

Frank Gilson · Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:14 am Post subject:

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

Sorry to be so long in replying. Live gets in the way....
You hit it right... I am going to skirmish with the LC.. Hopefully find a weak spot. I am trying something different from our first encounter. I had the Varangian and (I think) two SHC also Skuts..... He charged with his knights and basically routed the Varangians and caught the SHC... I didn't have enough LC to cover the flanks... Game Over man!!!! Game over Man!!!
Plus that Block of 9El LC (an idea of the Kaesermeister) was hard to hold....SO I countered with my own 9El LC of Penchnegs. WOW that was original of me. Laughing

I think I will take you advise about up armoring the Lancers. Can I skirmish with the EHC????
The Normans were an afterthought. What should I do to replace them....
EK

Frank Gilson · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:48 am Post subject:

While the Byzantine EHC can't skirmish, they can use their cavalry rules to recall if charged (or shot for 2).

Replace the Normans with Byzantine cav...or LC if you feel you don't have enough.

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

So let it be written, So let it be done.

Ed Kollmer · Centurion Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1018

Sorry to take so long.
Here is the revised list:

HW #2 Nike Byzantine
Warm Sct
2El Edwardus RgA,HC,L,B,sh+HC,L,B,sh 2 200
2El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 6 34
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Penchnegs LC I/C 1/2 Jls,B,sh, 18 97
1/2 B
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kats EHC,RegB,L,sh 78
4El Psiloi,LI,RegC,B,sh 2 42

2El Michael RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37
6El Psiloi RgD,LMI,B,1/2sh 70
2El Psiloi RgC,LI,Jls,sh 1 26

2El Demitri RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37

scouting 83 1603

Frank Gilson · Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: looking good

I think you have a solid list you can experiment with...only a couple of things.

I don't know that you need the Kataphraktoi unit if you are not using them as front SHC...as you have enough of the Kavallarioi to not need to buy any Kataphraktoi.

Lastly, given the Byzantine cavalary special rules you can be EHC and still do all the recalling from charges and shooting...you don't need to be HC as you don't need to use skirmish formation.

Frank