Warrior Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
 
  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups AlbumAlbum   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Nikephoran Byzantine

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Nikephoran Byzantine

I ran Nikephoran at various points, with SHC, without, with Skutatoi close foot...without.

I think you're best with no Skutatoi.

CinC PA 2E Reg A/B EHC/HC L,B,Sh 201
Sub similar 131
4x2E Reg B EHC/HC L,B,Sh 376
2E Reg B HC L,B,Sh 88
3x 4E Reg B(1 A) LHI/LMI 2HCW,JLS,Sh 378
2x4E Reg D(1 C) LI JLS,Sh 72
2x6E Reg D(1 C) LC B 144
4E Reg D(1 C) LC B 52
2x2E Reg B LC B 76
7E Irr C LC B 81 = 1599
18 units, 2 cmds, 99 scouting

If you want combined arms of Varangians and SHC you can fiddle to run a SHC/EHC unit...but I often found the SHC having to 'hide'.

LC are 'fluffy' flank(s) while the LI handle terrain you don't operate in and the Varangians supported by lancer go to a vulnerable point of the enemy army to kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:03 am    Post subject:

Hmmmm.......
Nike Byz...... My kind of army....
I need more LI jls, sh.......
Edwardus is going to try this list.....
Hopefully against TimCorvinus.... and his dastardly Hungarians .
EK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: bzyantine rules

Make sure to read through the Bzyantine rules for the lancers and the Varangians just before playing.

In particular the lancers and Varangians can Charge the same target, which may matter against an infantry Opponent.

Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Todd Kaeser
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 977
Location: Foxborough, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject:

Nik Byzantine appeals to me greatly.

Lots of regular troops and flexibility - and opportunity for shooting.

It is an army with great variety for sure. While you have looked at to skut or not to skut I would also think you would have the option for LMI bowmen as well.

If one was going with the no skut option I would have 2 less heavy or extra-heavy cavalry units in return for bowmen (some of with javelins possibly - don't have the list in front of me).

Love the 7E unit of LC - that extra element (if points are available) is a game changer in shooting with other LC units.

I would be okay running the skuts as well - they are tough troops and with LTS,Jls,D,Sh they can be particularly nasty. I know Derek runs them as Reg D with just LTS and works his magic around them.

Maybe a future run with Byzantines..... hmmmmm....

Todd

_________________
Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum
"Don't let the Bastards Grind You Down"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Give it a shot, Todd, at least at home.

In terms of Skutatoi, though, they are just slow and don't mesh with the rest of the army...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject:

OK. Being the humble Warrior player. I will open myself up for massive criticism .
This is the list that I was thinking of playing against TimG's Hungarians (list made by Meister Kaeser).

HW #2 Nike Byzantine
Warm Sct
2El Edwardus L,B,sh+HC,L,B,sh 2 200
2El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 6 38
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Penchnegs LC I/C 1/2 Jls,B,sh, 18 97
1/2 B
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kats EHC,RegB,L,sh 78
4El Psiloi,LI,RegC,B,sh 2 42

2El Michael RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37
6El Psiloi RgD,LMI,B,1/2sh 70


2El Demitri RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37


May the criticism begin..... Laughing

Ed the Byzantinopile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject:

Ed Kollmer wrote:
OK. Being the humble Warrior player. I will open myself up for massive criticism .
This is the list that I was thinking of playing against TimG's Hungarians (list made by Meister Kaeser).

HW #2 Nike Byzantine
Warm Sct
2El Edwardus L,B,sh+HC,L,B,sh 2 200
2El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 6 38
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Penchnegs LC I/C 1/2 Jls,B,sh, 18 97
1/2 B
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Norman HC,IrA,L,sh 2 85
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kats EHC,RegB,L,sh 78
4El Psiloi,LI,RegC,B,sh 2 42

2El Michael RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37
6El Psiloi RgD,LMI,B,1/2sh 70


2El Demitri RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B,1/2sh 12 66
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37


May the criticism begin..... Laughing

Ed the Byzantinopile


I don't know about criticism Smile.

You're using a mounted skirmishing approach, seeking to shake something loose with Shooting and try to work flanks.

For the regular LI Psiloi I prefer to use LI JLS,Sh as they can fight a lot of enemy LI or at least force them back.

In terms of Reg LC on the list, I typically don't buy shields as they would almost never fight anything frontally, and would be in skirmish if shot at.

Also, those guys I usually put either in 2E Reg B Units (countering is very important for such a small unit) or 6E Units (D morale with perhaps some C) who can start in column and swing out 3 wide as necessary.

I have never used the Normans...they seem glorious and get their own Special rules but are still HC.

I would take a Little more armor for front rank regular lancers...it does make a difference.

Not using any Varangians is interesting as they appear to be a big reason for playing the list at all...but if you are primarily facing lancers on a relatively open table that will be fine.

Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject:

Sorry to be so long in replying. Live gets in the way....
You hit it right... I am going to skirmish with the LC.. Hopefully find a weak spot. I am trying something different from our first encounter. I had the Varangian and (I think) two SHC also Skuts..... He charged with his knights and basically routed the Varangians and caught the SHC... I didn't have enough LC to cover the flanks... Game Over man!!!! Game over Man!!!
Plus that Block of 9El LC (an idea of the Kaesermeister) was hard to hold....SO I countered with my own 9El LC of Penchnegs. WOW that was original of me. Laughing
I think I will take you advise about up armoring the Lancers. Can I skirmish with the EHC????
The Normans were an afterthought. What should I do to replace them....
EK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject:

While the Byzantine EHC can't skirmish, they can use their cavalry rules to recall if charged (or shot for 2).

Replace the Normans with Byzantine cav...or LC if you feel you don't have enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject:

So let it be written, So let it be done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Ed Kollmer
Centurion
Centurion


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:43 am    Post subject:

Sorry to take so long.
Here is the revised list:

HW #2 Nike Byzantine
Warm Sct
2El Edwardus RgA,HC,L,B,sh+HC,L,B,sh 2 200
2El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 6 34
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Penchnegs LC I/C 1/2 Jls,B,sh, 18 97
1/2 B
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kats EHC,RegB,L,sh 78
4El Psiloi,LI,RegC,B,sh 2 42

2El Michael RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37
6El Psiloi RgD,LMI,B,1/2sh 70
2El Psiloi RgC,LI,Jls,sh 1 26

2El Demitri RgA EHC,L,B,sh+EHC,L,B,sh 140
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
2El Kav,HC,RegB,L,B,sh 2 88
4El Cav Archers,LC,RegC,B 12 58
6El Tuldum,IrD,LI,S 3 37

scouting 83 1603
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1079
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: looking good

I think you have a solid list you can experiment with...only a couple of things.

I don't know that you need the Kataphraktoi unit if you are not using them as front SHC...as you have enough of the Kavallarioi to not need to buy any Kataphraktoi.

Lastly, given the Byzantine cavalary special rules you can be EHC and still do all the recalling from charges and shooting...you don't need to be HC as you don't need to use skirmish formation.

Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group