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2017 NICT Lists
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Frank Gilson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Scott McDonald Seleucid

Scott McDonald's Seleucids

1 CnC 2 Rg A/C EHC L 154
2 Sub 1 Rg A SHC/1 Rg C EHC L 122
3 Sub 2 Rg A S/EHC L 128
4 Sub 2 Rg A S/EHC L 128
5 2 Rg C LC JLS, SH 42
6 2 Rg C LC JLS, SH 42
7 2 Rg C LC JLS, SH 42
8 2 Rg C LC JLS, SH 42
9 4 Ir C LC B, JLS, 1/2 SH 73
10 4 Ir C LC B, JLS, 1/2 SH 73
11 4 Rg C LMI JLS, LTS, SH 90
12 4 Rg C LMI JLS, LTS, SH 90
13 12 Ir D LI JLS, 7xSH 63
14 2 Rg C LI B, 1xSH 24
15 2 Rg C LI B, 1xSH 24
16 4 Rg B 1xHI, 3xMI, P, SH 98
17 8 Rg C 2xHI, 6xMI, P, SH 154
18 2 Ir C El 1xJLS, 1xP, 1xB 115
19 HCh Syth Exp 24
20 HCh Syth Exp 24
21 HCh Syth Exp 24
22 HCh Syth Exp 24
1600
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Rick Parrish Midianite

Rick Parrish's Midianites

1 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
2 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
3 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
4 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
5 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
6 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
7 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
8 6E IC, MCm, 2 w/B 133
9 6E IC, LCm, B 73
10 1E IC/5E ID, LI, JLS, 1/2 Sh 45
11 1E IC/5E ID, LI, JLS, 1/2 Sh 45
12 1E IC/5E ID, LI, JLS, 1/2 Sh 45
13 4E ID LI, S, Sh 41
14 4E ID LI, S, Sh 41
15 10E ID, LI, S, 1/2 Sh 55
16 10E ID, LI, B 45
17 8E ID, LI, B 41
18 1E IC, Gen + 2 MCm, B 106
1601
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Comment Away!

Alright...any and all should now post commentary Wink.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject:

On it Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject:

On it Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject:

Since we have the bottom 2, here is 4th from the bottom:
Anglo-Irish
2 Irreg, B, 1/2 HK, 1/2 HC L, SH, PA
2 Irreg, B, 1/2 HK, 1/2 HC L, SH, P
2 Irreg, B, 1/2 HK, 1/2 HC L, SH
2 Irreg, B, 1/2 HK, 1/2 HC L, SH
8 Irreg, B, 1/2 HI,1/2 MI, 2HCW, JLS, D
8 Irreg, B, 1/2 HI,1/2 MI, 2HCW, JLS, D
4 Reg, D, 1/2 HI, LB, SH, 1/2 MI LB, stakes
4 Reg, D, 1/2 HI, LB, SH, 1/2 MI LB, stakes
4 Reg, D, 1/2 HI, LB, SH, 1/2 MI LB, stakes
6 Irreg C, 1/2 LI, S, SH, 1/2 Jls, Sh
6 Irreg C, 1/2 LI, S, SH, 1/2 Jls, Sh
12 Irreg C, 1/3 LMI, JLS, 2HCW, SH, 2/3 LMI, JLS, SH
4 Irreg C, LC, JLS, Sh
2 Reg C Bombard, crew of 4
8 Irreg C, LI, B, 1/2 Sh

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Todd Kaeser Tepanec

Frank Gilson wrote:
Todd Kaeser's Tepanecs

1 CinC 2E Reg A/B LMI LTS,S,Sh + PA 175
2 Sub 2E Reg A/B LMI LTS,S,Sh + P 105
3 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
4 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
5 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
6 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
7 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
8 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
9 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,S,Sh 90
10 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,S,Sh 90
11 4E Subject Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,D,Sh 90
12 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
13 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
14 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
15 6E Otomi Ir C LMI Jls,Sh 79
16 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
17 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
18 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
19 4E Subject Skirmishers Reg D LI S,Sh 34

1605


Various slackers have not started posting commentary on these lists. So I'll start.

This is Todd's Tepanec list...I'll refer you to the extensive back and forth here:
http://www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17579

Apart from what is said there...Todd also gave his AAR here:
http://www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17629&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Not much to add. This is a solid version and type of list we'll find 1 or 2 of in most events permitting it. Dense missile fire, high morale and able to last in hand to hand combat make these lists tough.

How would you attack one? Well, Todd describes a loss to Ghaznavid in his AAR which is one way. Another would be to force MesoAmericans into skirmish with solid foot who would otherwise rout them and charge the resulting skirmishing foot with mounted causing repeated wavers and possibly rolling long and hitting them in the rear...phew.

You will find you can only do that in about two places, however.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rich Kroupa Kushan

Frank Gilson wrote:
Rich Kroupa's Kushans

1 2 Elements, Irr-C, LI, JLS, Sh 2x6+25 37
2 4 Elements, Irr-C, LC, L, B, ½Sh+EP 2x16+ 2x12 + 25 81
3 4 Elements, Irr-C, LC, L, B, ½Sh+EP 2x16+ 2x12 + 25 81
4 4 Elements, Irr-C, LC, L, B, ½Sh+EP 2x16+ 2x12 + 25 81
5 4 Elements, Irr-C MI,LTS,½Sh 2x12 + 2x8 + 25 65
6 2 Elements, Irr-B, EHC, L,B, ½Sh+EP 1x39 + 1x33 + 25 97
7 1 Element, Irr-B, SHC, L, B +EP 1x52
1 Element, Irr-B, EHC,L,B + EP 1x33 + 25" 110
8 2 Element, Irr-B, SHC,L,B + EP 2x52 + 25 129
9 2 Element, Irr-B, SHC,L,B + EP 2x52 + 25 129
10 2 Elements, Irr-B, Elephants, Armed Driver+JLS+B 2x48+25 121

11 4 Elements, Irr-C LMI, JLS,B,½Sh 2x12 + 2x9 + 25 67
12 4 Elements, Irr-C, LC,L,B,½Sh +CP 2x16 + 2x12 + 25 81
13 2 Elements, Irr-C, LI, B 2x4 + 25 33
14 2 Elements, Irr-C, LI, B 2x4 + 25 33
15 4 Elements, Irr-C, MCm,L,B,½Sh 2x18 + 2x12 + 25 85
16 4 Elements, Irr-C, MCm,L,B,½Sh 2x18 + 2x12 + 25 85

17 2 Elements, Irr-B, Elephants, Armed Driver+JLS+B+PAS 1x48+15+112 175 CNC
18 2 Elements, Irr-B, EHC, L,B, ½Sh+CP+PS 1x33+5+76 114 SG-1
1604

Cav in the top group are elephant proof...in the bottom group camel proof.


Rich takes certain lists and makes them 'his'...in the past we saw Huns, Khmer, etc.

There are usually very interesting 'sub-themes' running through his take on lists.

Here we have the 'Elephant' theme on one side of the battle and the smaller 'Camel' theme on the other, with attendant 'proofing' for mounted.

He also uses very unusual 2E Irr C LI units that I would never use...never...and a dubious 4E Irr C LMI unit I would also...never...use. Wink

And then he goes and makes them work.

How would you fight this type of list, primarily mounted with some elephants/camels?

Avoid the disordering traps of the elephants/camels against your own mounted. Focus shooting against the more vulnerable parts of Rich's army (elephants, LC, camels). If Rich forces you to deploy first you will have to balance 'pickets' on the front line to stop his marches and permit your own against his LC killing your pickets (which are likely to be LI/LC).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill Low Tepanec

Frank Gilson wrote:
Derek Downs' New Kingdom Egyptians

1 CnC JLS B 2x 2HLch RA/B PA 149
2 2x 2HLch 1 w/B RB 48
3 2x 2HLch 1 w/B RB 48
4 2x 2HLch 1 w/B RB 48
5 2x 2HLch 1 w/B RB 48
6 2x 2HLch 1 w/B RB 48
7 4x MI JLS SH RD 58
8 4x MI JLS SH RD 58
9 4x LMI B RD 42
10 4x LMI B RD 42
11 4x LMI B RD 42
12 4x LMI B RD 42
13 4x LMI B RD 42
14 4x LMI JLS B RB ½ SH 98
15 4x LMI JLS B RB ½ SH 98
16 4x LMI JLS B RB ½ SH 98
17 4x LMI JLS B RB ½ SH 98
18 4xLMI JLS B RB ½ SH 98
19 4x LMI JLS B RC ½ SH 82
20 2x LI JLS SH RC 26
21 2x LI JLS SH RC 26
22 2x LI JLS SH RC 26
23 2x LI JLS SH RC 26
24 2x LI JLS SH RC 26
25 2x LI B RC 22
26 2x LI B RC 22
27 4x LHI 1HCW JLS SH RB 138
1599


This list looks totally crazy! How do you attack anything! It seems as though it has only one fighting unit.

As per Derek's past history we see a lot of units, lots of regulars, and a bunch of D class...with a high morale core.

Really this is a army that rolls a lot of dense shooting dice looking for the +2s and perhaps a +3 to disorder the enemy and hopefully cause a waver.

It also, as Derek often does, looks to work one of the many units through a gap onto a flank...which can cause a lot of damage even if it is 'just' a 2E LI unit.

Finally, the light chariots add two additional angles of attack...causing unease and charging loose/open foot to cause wavers.

How do you fight it? Well, you need to be able to get into the shooters and rout some of them, causing cascading waver failures, as soon as possible...before they have their effect. Letting them shoot for several bounds is a mistake.

You also have to protect your flanks even more so than you would against any other opponent or army.

Those two objectives often fight against one another...a fact Derek seeks to exploit.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill Low Tepanec

Frank Gilson wrote:
Bill Low's Tepanecs

Toltec Successor States (Tepanec) 1250-1426 (NWW 7 - Dry) NICT 2014 (1600)
1 CinC as LMI 1HCW, S, Sh with PA standard + 3 Reg A LMI 1HCW, S, Sh (151) 24 24 24 127 0 151
4 SG as LMI LTS, S, Sh with P standard + 3 Reg A LMI LTS, S, Sh (81)/3 Reg B LMI LTS, S, Sh (24) 24 24 96 57 0 153
4 SG as LMI LTS, S, Sh with P standard + 3 Reg A LMI LTS, S, Sh (81)/3 Reg B LMI LTS, S, Sh (24) 24 24 96 57 0 153
457
4 Knights Reg A/B LMI LTS, S, Sh 24 24 96 4 10 110
4 Veteran Warriors Reg A/B LMI LTS, S, Sh 24 24 96 4 10 110
4 Veteran Warriors Reg A/B LMI LTS, S, Sh 24 24 96 4 10 110
330
4 Warriors Reg C LMI 2HCT, S, Sh 24 24 96 10 106
4 Warriors Reg C LMI 2HCT, S, Sh 24 24 96 10 106
4 Subject Warriors Reg C LMI LTS, D, Sh 20 20 80 10 90
4 Otomi Irr C LMI 1HCW, JLS, Sh 12 12 48 25 73
375
2 Otomi Irr A LMI 2HCT/1HCW, JLS, Sh 21 18 19.5 39 25 64
2 Otomi Irr A LMI 2HCT/1HCW, JLS, Sh 21 18 19.5 39 25 64
2 Otomi Irr A LMI 2HCT/1HCW, JLS, Sh 21 18 19.5 39 25 64
2 Otomi Irr A LMI 2HCT/1HCW, JLS, Sh 21 18 19.5 39 25 64
256
4 Skirmishers Reg D LI S, Sh 6 6 24 10 34
4 Skirmishers Reg D LI S, Sh 6 6 24 10 34
2 Skirmishers Reg C LI 1HCW, S, Sh 10 10 20 10 30
2 Skirmishers Reg C LI 1HCW, S, Sh 10 10 20 10 30
2 Skirmishers Reg C LI S, Sh 8 8 16 10 26
2 Skirmishers Reg C LI S, Sh 8 8 16 10 26
61 180
Scouting: 8 1598


The comments and links on Todd's list apply here. Bill has chosen to have a little less top morale for another Sub and slightly more aggressive weaponry.

I personally don't think the 3rd general is necessary on 1600. I also don't like C morale for the 2HCT guys...and...would have those guys be 2HCT,JLS,Sh not 2HCT,S,Sh.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ewan McNay HYWE

Frank Gilson wrote:
Ewan McNay's Hundred Years War English

2 CinC Reg B SHK L, Sh/HK L PA 170 33 101.5 203 203
2 Sub Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L P 100 33 66.5 133 133
2 Sub Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L P 100 33 66.5 133 133
2 Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L 60 33 46.5 93 10 103
2 Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L 60 33 46.5 93 10 103
2 Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L 60 33 46.5 93 10 103
2 Reg B SHK/HK L,Sh/L 60 33 46.5 93 10 103


881

6 Reg D LMI LB, Sh/LB 12 8 10 60 10 70
6 Reg D LMI LB, Sh/LB 12 8 10 60 10 70
6 Reg C LMI LB, Sh/LB 16 12 14 84 10 94
4 Reg C LHI 2HCW, LB/LMI LB 24 12 18 72 10 82
4 Reg C LHI 2HCW, LB/LMI LB 24 12 18 72 10 82
4 Reg C LHI 2HCW, LB/LMI LB 24 12 18 72 10 82
4 Reg C LHI 2HCW, LB/LMI LB 24 12 18 72 10 82
2 Reg C LHI 2HCW, LB/LMI LB 24 12 18 36 10 46
6 IrrC LI S, Sh 6 6 6 36 25 61
2 Reg D LI LB 4 4 4 8 10 18
2 Reg D LI LB 4 4 4 8 10 18
7E unemplaced stakes 14
719
Scouting: 5 1600


All the longbowmen, organized in ways we've seen and that make sense...and a lot of highly efficient knights with 3 generals for impetuosity or dismounting...minimal lights.

A short few stakes...but a number useful here or there...yet...when you read Ewan's AAR:
http://www.fourhorsemenenterprises.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17629&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You see that one important detail of his battles isn't anywhere on his list...Temporary Fortifications, either Ditch if the enemy isn't shooter heavy or Wagon Laager if the enemy is.

He can even trade in stakes he doesn't need...

How would you fight against this? Well, try to stretch the flanks...if you can...although expect TF to get in the way. Some troops can attack over the TF into the longbowmen, but that's pretty rare and is unlikely to rout the longbow who would just break off.

Elephants applied in the correct places (clearly not trying to cross TFs you can't actuall cross), drawing longbow fire away, are probably the best option.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Greg Hauser Ghaznavid

Frank Gilson wrote:
Greg Hauser's Ghaznavids

CinC 1 EL IrrB Crew PA B,P,Jls Dr 127
Grey Rock Ghulams 2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh 85
Naked Elephants 3 El IrrB Crew P,B,Jls DR 169
Indian Cav 1 EHC L,Sh 1 MC L,Sh all Elephant proof cav 79
Red Rock Ghulams 2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh 85
Indian Irr D LI 10 LI B 45
590

Blue Sub Gen 2 EL IrrB Crew PA B,P,Jls Dr 115
Blanket Elephants 2 El IrrB Crew P,B,Jls DR 121
Blue Daylami 4 REG B LHI LTS,B,SH 138
Indian Cav 1 EHC L,Sh 1 MC L,Sh all Elephant proof cav 79
LC 9 IRR C LC B 97
550
Yellow Sub 2 EL IrrB Crew PA B,P,Jls Dr 115
Red Daylami 4 Reg B LHI LTS ,B,Sh 138
Turk Arab LI Irr C 7 LI 1/2 B,Sh 1/2 B 59
Purple Arab LI Irr C 7 LI 1/2 B,Sh 1/2 B 59
Stone throwers 4 Reg C crew Oxen 90 461
1601


I appreciate the years of work Greg has put into Ghaznavid, trying this option, and that one. Here he stretches the list to incorporate some elephant proof lancers, even if they aren't very good otherwise. He also has the mandatory HC L,B,Sh as Irr B and not Reg B. He uses his infamous artillery unit.

Personally my thinking on this list has changed over the years...given several facts.

Scouting is important, and deploying, particularly with three commands, after the opponent's commands, is very powerful...so I want more LC than Greg uses here.

I also think, generally speaking, that the elephants should mostly be in Three model units...given that there is a large amount of dense shooting around, that the elephants on Ghaznavid cannot have detachments or LI on the base, and the fact that they have a bow crew that makes them shooters to front, while also elephants, the highest target priority.

Finally, the elephants are really good...so I'm probably going to want all eleven of them instead of 'other things'.

This means out with the Artillery, buy all the elephants, buy all the Irr C LC B available, buy the two Dailami units, buy some LI, including a couple of 2E Reg B LI (magical guys those, in terrain)...and leave the required HC as Reg B. I'm probably not going to have any points left for the elephant proof cav...but might try to fit in one such unit.

How would I fight against Ghaznavid? Well, dense shooting Wink...try to use terrain to my advantage...and try to get points where the elephants are not...exploiting the fact that the elephants don't work well combined with the required HC and the LC.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Jake Kovel Early Polish

Frank Gilson wrote:
Jake Kovel's Early Polish

1 2x LC, JLS, B, SH 2x LC, B Irr C 69 CinC
2 6x LI, S, SH Irr C 61 CinC
3 2x EHK, L, SH Irr B 190 CinC*
4 3x LMI, 2HCW, SH 3x LMI, JLS, SH Irr C 79 CinC
5 3x LMI, 2HCW, SH 3x LMI, JLS, SH Irr C 79 CinC
6 3x HI, 2HCT, B, SH 3x MI, JLS, B, SH Irr C 157 CinC
7 3x HI, 2HCT, B, SH 3x MI, JLS, B, SH Irr C 157 CinC
8 6x LC, JLS, B, SH Irr B 121 Sub
9 6x LC, JLS, B, SH Irr B 121 Sub
10 3x LC, JLS, B, SH 3x LC, B Irr C 91 Sub
11 2x EHK, L, SH Irr B 115 Sub
12 2x EHK, L, SH Irr B 115 Sub
13 2x EHK, L, SH Irr B 115 Sub
14 2x EHK, L, SH Irr B 130 Sub*
1600

* = the general's unit


Early Polish was used to win the Teams at Cold Wars 2017. Jake has run it in varying versions in the past. It's a list with a lot of internal 'how do you build it?' tension. I don't have a 'best' version...and actually don't like the directions it pulls...unless of course I was to have 2000 points of it Wink, like Markowitz and Markowitz.

Still, Jake does get some high powered HI/MI 2HCT,B,Sh/JLS,B,Sh here...

I do quibble with some of the details of how he has organized this.

Irr B LC JLS,B,Sh that don't even fight 1.5 ranks. Too expensive. These are better as 4E Irr B LC L,JLS,Sh or as a really expensive dismountable mixed 8E unit...or not purchased at all.

CinC as a LC unit is saying it will just be prompting things and never fighting...but that's not necessarily terrible...I just wouldn't do it.

The biggest flaws for me are no SHK, only 14 units and the poor quality loose order foot units.

He did finish higher than a number of solid players using 'better' lists, however.


Last edited by Frank Gilson on Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Todd Kaeser Tepanec

Frank Gilson wrote:
Frank Gilson wrote:
Todd Kaeser's Tepanecs

1 CinC 2E Reg A/B LMI LTS,S,Sh + PA 175
2 Sub 2E Reg A/B LMI LTS,S,Sh + P 105
3 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
4 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
5 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
6 4E Knights Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
7 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
8 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg B (1E A) LMI LTS,S,Sh 110
9 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,S,Sh 90
10 4E Tepanec Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,S,Sh 90
11 4E Subject Warriors Reg C LMI LTS,D,Sh 90
12 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
13 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
14 2E Otomi Ir A LMI 1/2 2HCT,Jls,Sh 1/2 1HCW, Jls,Sh 64
15 6E Otomi Ir C LMI Jls,Sh 79
16 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
17 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
18 2E Tepanec Skirmisher Reg C LI 1HCW,S,Sh 30
19 4E Subject Skirmishers Reg D LI S,Sh 34

1605


Various slackers have not started posting commentary on these lists. So I'll start.


Yeah, guilty as charged. Summer travel, semester start-up, excuses, excuses.

At least part of the delay, though, was working out what to say about this list. It's single-minded and defensive: LTS is a weapon to not-lose with (and protection against cav to some extent), not a win-in-hth weapon. Which fits Todd's philosophy of the army: take as many shots as possible and exploit where you get lucky. With 8-10 units firing for 5 turns, some place there's going to be a +3. Just hope it's a place that matters and is exploitable. The difficulty of getting big wins with this type of army has been discussed before at great length, and nothing here mitigates that - you'll likely be outscouted, nothing moves more than 120p, you're all foot. So an enemy who doesn't choose to fight, you probably can't force it.

I didn't fight this, but I *did* fight Bill Low's - we'll get to this - and I have fought this army previously: the last and most critical weakness is homogeneity with the corollary of being unable to create a schwerpunkt. Todd mentions his fear against SHK, and ditto against Ghaznavid elephants. So it is a testament to Todd's skill and long practice with the list that he pulled outthe NICT - congratulations, pal.

I think that given the philosophy decisions, this is taken about as well as possible. I might consider dropping the subgeneral - not much prompting likely to be needed. The list benefits from the increased terrain density prevalent recently; not sure that I have much more interesting to say.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Dan Woyke Lodi Indian

Frank Gilson wrote:
Dan Woyke's Lodi Dynasty Indians

2 **Irr B EL JLS,2B 1HG/PA 133 54 93.5 187 0 187
3 *Irr B EL JLS,2B 1HG/P 73 54 63.5 190.5 0 190.5
3 Irr B EL JLS,2B 1HG 54 54 54 162 25 187
564.5
2 Irr B HC L,B,Sh * 33 33 66 25 91
4 Irr C MC L,B,Sh 21 21 84 25 109
200
4 Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/B * 16 10 13 52 25 77
4 Irr C LC JLS,B,Sh/B * 16 10 13 52 25 77
154
4 Irr B LMI JLS,SH 12 12 48 25 73
6 Irr C MI LTS,JLS,SH 16 16 96 25 121
8 Irr C LI B SH/B 6 4 5 40 25 65
259
Rajput
2 *Irr A EHC/HC L,B,Sh * 108 36 72 144 144
2 Irr A EHC/HC L,B,Sh * 42 36 39 78 25 103
2 Irr A EHC/HC L,B,Sh * 42 36 39 78 25 103
350
6 Irr D LI B 2 2 12 25 37
6 Irr D LI B 2 2 12 25 37
74
Scouting: 46
* Elephant Proof 1601.5


Dan has been exploring the later Indian lists a bit...here is another version.

Quality elephant proof mounted along with 8 elephants are the pluses...minuses are the mostly 'disposable' infantry.

The HG crew on the Elephants is interesting...I personally don't like it as you can't fire the HG in a charge in support...it has shorter range than bow and working out the 'math' it rarely makes a difference.

The difference with a list like Ghaznavid is worse infantry here, better mounted here (given elephant proofing), slightly worse elephants here (no pike). Ghaznavid is the better list on balance.

Lodi has to cover substantial frontage with the dubious infantry...while making a decision whether or not to spread out or concentrate the elephants.
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