Warrior Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules
A Four Horsemen Enterprises Rules Set
 
  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups AlbumAlbum   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Khmer @ 1600 pts
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
scott holder
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 5920
Location: Bonnots Mill, MO

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 pm    Post subject: Khmer @ 1600 pts

I'm playing Numidians in the Elephant theme because I'm a glutton for punishment. But, I have had Khmer for a gazillion years and have never updated the lead for Warrior lists.

Time to do that. I went back and looked at NICT lists and commentary. Most everybody hated the way the lists were done, even the year Derek won with them.

So, anybody care to post their power-gamed Khmer list? I need to know if I need to get anything, remount, etc.

Thanks,

scott

_________________
These Rules Suck, Let's Paint!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
jamiepwhite
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject: Khmer list version 1

Derek favors a different Khmer list but here is a current one.

1 2 RC LC JLS Sh EP 46 1
2 2 RC LC JLS Sh EP 46 1
3 CinC as 2 War Elephants, PA 164 1
4 2 RA LMI JLS Sh, parent 58 1
5 2 War Elephants, detachment 96 1
6 2 RA LMI JLS Sh, parent 58 1
7 4 RC LHI JLS B Sh 122 1
8 4 RC LMI JLS Sh 74 1
9 4 RC LMI JLS B Sh 122 1
10 4 RC LMI JLS Sh 74 1
11 4 RC LMI JLS B Sh 90 1
12 4 RC LMI JLS Sh 74 1
13 2 RA/B HC JLS Sh, EP 85 1
14 2 RB LI B 26 1
15 6 RD LI B 34 1
16 6 RD LMI B 58 1
17 6 RD LMI B 58 1
18 Ally as 2 War Elephants P 129 Champa
19 4 RC LHI JLS Sh 106 Champa
20 4 IC LC B Sh EP 81 Champa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject:

What's the benefit of using the Khmer list?

Hmmm...what does it have...

Plentiful LI of various sorts...not awesome, but not bad at all...so we use some amount of LI. Also, the relatively little LC available means you buy all of that, make it elephant proof, and then need to get your remaining scouting points from LI (although take care not to run 'too much' LI as they then just end up as points for the enemy).

Note also that LI can be detachments of elephants.

Still, really, why run Khmer?

Because you can get a lot of elephants...not merely because you can get elephants, as although they are Irr B, they do not have pike and only have 2 crew (yes, get the driver JLS).

A secondary reason to run the list is that through the parent/detachment arrangement you can get elephant units that count as a lot of figures, thus reducing the effect of enemy missile fire and hth combat against them.

Reg loose foot are useful, but on this list not particularly good...still, you need some working independently as terrain units...just not too much.

Thus, take 12+ elephants. Use detachments. Make sure your scouting points are in the 20s somewhere. Have 2-3, maybe 4, units of independent reg loose foot that can hold terrain for you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Mark Stone
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2082
Location: Buckley, WA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject:

The other reason to play Khmer is to play Burmese elephants. The actual Burmese list is terrible, so if you're interested in playing the Burmese elephants you need to play either Khmer or Ming.

I recall Derek running Khmer on 1600 points with 22 elephants. That was an impressive sight, and a surprisingly competitive version of the list.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   MSN Messenger
Frank Gilson
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Orange County California

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:37 pm    Post subject:

Mark Stone wrote:
The other reason to play Khmer is to play Burmese elephants. The actual Burmese list is terrible, so if you're interested in playing the Burmese elephants you need to play either Khmer or Ming.

I recall Derek running Khmer on 1600 points with 22 elephants. That was an impressive sight, and a surprisingly competitive version of the list.


While true, when I've faced Burmese elephants I've either killed them or ignored them. They're overpriced...C class...and we all know how to face them, or defuse them.

Thus I don't view the presence of Burmese elephants as a tremendous plus for Khmer, or a key to their victory chances...which are largely going to be about getting a lot of elephants into as much of the opponent's army as you can, while 'not losing' where the elephants can't be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 512
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:24 pm    Post subject: Khmer

Both Rich Kroupa and Derek ran high elephant lists - both were in my opinion much more scary than the list above
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Mark Stone
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2082
Location: Buckley, WA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Khmer

lilroblis wrote:
Both Rich Kroupa and Derek ran high elephant lists - both were in my opinion much more scary than the list above


Totally agree. If you aren't running an elephant army, there's definitely a personal morale check after setup when facing that many elephants.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   MSN Messenger
Ewan McNay
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2749
Location: Albany, NY, US

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:58 am    Post subject:

The high-CPF, elephant-fronted units are relatively cheap and very hard to kill for many armies. They hit reasonably hard and will grind most enemies in hth.

That's basically it. Agree with everyone else that maxed El is the way to go, with maxed Reg LMI cheap foot behind them to boost cpf.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
scott holder
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 5920
Location: Bonnots Mill, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject:

Jamie: That list underwhelms even me.

I agree with Frank in that the Burmese have always been a siren song component in any list.

I finally found Derek's 2004(!) NICT list: Khmer. I'd looked prior to making the original post but the search function didn't find it. Instead I went back thru my folders, not remembering which year he played it. My stuff for the NICT in this case "only" only goes back to 2004. But there it was! This is cut/paste from the text of the email so it's not great.

CC 1 w/ JLS/B + 1 w/ JLS PA Elephant IB 152
+ Ele 1 w/ JLS/B
2x Elephant 1 w/ JLS/B IB 101
16 LHI JLS SH RC 106
16 LHI JLS SH RC 106
16 LMI B RC 58
16 LMI B RC 58
16 LMI B RC 58
SUB 2x ELE 1 w/ JLS/B Ps IB 92
SUB 2x ELE 1 w/ JLS/B Ps IB 92
SUB 2x ELE 1 w/ JLS/B Ps IB 92
6 HC JLS SH RC 70
4 LI JLS SH RC 26
4 LI JLS SH RC 26

Tribal Allied Command
Ally 3x ELE 1 w/ JLS + 1 w/ B IB 165
3x ELE 1 w/ JLS + 1 w/ B IB 151
3x ELE 1 w/ JLS + 1 w/ B IB 151
12 LI 1/2 JLS 1/2 B IC 49
12 LI 1/2 JLS 1/2 B IC 49

Note the lack of El detachments.

Now I'm gonna try and find Rich's NICT list.

_________________
These Rules Suck, Let's Paint!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
scott holder
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 5920
Location: Bonnots Mill, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:12 pm    Post subject:

Didn't find Rich's but saw that Jamie ran Khmer in 2007.
_________________
These Rules Suck, Let's Paint!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
scott holder
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 5920
Location: Bonnots Mill, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject:

Derek ran a very different version in 2006. That's below along with Ewan's commentary.


1 2 IB CnC Ele 2w/ JLS,B 164 0
2 3 IB Ele JLS,B / JLS 129 10 detachment
3 6 RD LMI B 48 10
4 4 RD LMI B 32 10
5 4 RD/4RC LHI/LMI JLS SH 68 10
6 4 RD LMI B 32 10
7 4 RD LMI JLS B SH 64 10
8 2 RC LC JLS SH ep 36 10
9 2 RC LC JLS SH 32 10
10 2 RC LI JLS 1/2 SH 14 10
11 2 RC LI JLS 1/2 SH 14 10
12 2 RC LI JLS 1/2 SH 14 10
13 2 RD LI B 8 10
14 2 RD LI B 8 10
15 2 IB SUB JLS,B / JLS 104 104 detachment
16 4 RD LMI JLS SH 48 10
17 3 IB SUB JLS,B / JLS 104 147 detachment
18 3 RD LMI B 24 10
19 3 IB/ IC Ele 3 w/ JLS,B 3 w/ B 238
20 9 ID LI JLS SH 36 10 detachment
21 2 IC Ele 3 w/ JLS,B 3 w/ B 126 25
22 9 ID LI B 18 10 detachment
*** Not clear to me exactly what is detached to what, but I think it's all rear-rank stuff for elephant units, with the elephants actlayy being the detachments. So, that gives 6 elephant units, two of which are Burmese, a bunch of tiny reg LI units, and a couple of others. I know this won, I just don't see how: it should have been easy enough to either (i) shoot up the Els to oblivion, (ii) kill everything that is not an elephant and make it all go home, or (iii) kill one of the huge elephant units and declare victory. I would have thought that of the prevalent armies, Alexandrian would have done (ii) and (iii), Samurai would have done (i) and (iii), and something like Mongol would do (ii). Shows how much I know. I still don't like it, though. 5 for mass of elephants.

_________________
These Rules Suck, Let's Paint!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
scott holder
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 5920
Location: Bonnots Mill, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject:

Rich ran it in 2010. I remember his saying that he was underwhelmed with his particular build.
_________________
These Rules Suck, Let's Paint!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 512
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Khmer

The problem is that with a unit that counts as 33 figure - very few armies can shoot it into anything with li to draw off fire, and combat with elephants is always a crap shoot - which they win a lot of the time - B class that rolls up once and you are done but typically does not go away if they roll down
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
lilroblis
Legionary
Legionary


Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 512
Location: Cleveland Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:24 pm    Post subject: Dereks list

So I remeber losing to the list in 2006- I routed one or two of the Burmese (memory is just I routed all the burmese - so who knows) and the rest of the elephants rolled over me - dont remember how long it took - but the elephants covered the entire available space- so my lights made little difference - I thought at the time not my kind of army - but very hard to stop- because a few rolls against anything but irr foot and the elephants push you back - and if you are foot or mounted other than elephants you are done barring spectacularly bad rolls. Not a terribly complex army to run - and one that allows aggressive dice rolling- and would be a blast in teams
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
jamiepwhite
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:05 am    Post subject: More on the elephant list

You have to buy the Cham ally to get the light cavalry, I was trying to see how many scouting point I could get in the list. 30 isn't much but it is quite a bit for an elephant list.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules Forum Index -> Army Lists All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group