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Teutonic - new errata - 1600 points

 
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:36 am    Post subject: Teutonic - new errata - 1600 points

Just a quick take:

CinC 2E Reg A SHK L,Sh + PA - 235
Sub (same) - 165

2E Brother Ser Reg B HC L,Sh - 76

2x 2E Mntd CB Reg B LC CB - 38 (76)

2x 4E Prussian Cav Reg D LC Jls,Sh - 66 (132)

3x 4E Prussian Foot Reg D LMI Jls,Sh - 58 (174)
2x 6E Prussian Bowmen Reg D LMI B,Sh 1/2 Jls - 94 (188

2x 2E Crusader Knights Ir A/B SHK L,Sh - 136 (272)
2x 2E Crusaders Kn/Ser Ir B/C SHK/HC L,Sh - 103 (206)

2x 2E Prussian Foot Reg D LI Jls,Sh - 22 (44)
6E Prussian Archers Reg D LI B - 34

45 scouting
1602 points


Feel free to poke and/or make another list. Just spit balling to get the discussion going again on feudal warrior. I made this up in about 5 minutes during a video of driver's ed that I was teaching last night in the dark using the computer as light..... It would be so nice to see Teuts on the table again as they are a handsome army and I know lots of people own them.

Todd

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject:

pending full resolution from Scott regarding the LI, currently they would not be able to be regular
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:47 pm    Post subject:

That is pretty silly as all of the other Prussian troops - Light cavalry, loose spearmen, loose bowmen, etc.... why would they fail to train the light infantry?

Having read through a few Teut books the Knights were very fastidious in their training of the Prussians and other auxiliaries - the lights should be trained as well IMO.

Todd

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Terry D
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Teutonic - new errata - 1600 points

Todd Kaeser wrote:
Just a quick take:

CinC 2E Reg A SHK L,Sh + PA - 235
Sub (same) - 165

2E Brother Ser Reg B HC L,Sh - 76

2x 2E Mntd CB Reg B LC CB - 38 (76)

2x 4E Prussian Cav Reg D LC Jls,Sh - 66 (132)

3x 4E Prussian Foot Reg D LMI Jls,Sh - 58 (174)
2x 6E Prussian Bowmen Reg D LMI B,Sh 1/2 Jls - 94 (188

2x 2E Crusader Knights Ir A/B SHK L,Sh - 136 (272)
2x 2E Crusaders Kn/Ser Ir B/C SHK/HC L,Sh - 103 (206)

2x 2E Prussian Foot Reg D LI Jls,Sh - 22 (44)
6E Prussian Archers Reg D LI B - 34

45 scouting
1602 points


Feel free to poke and/or make another list. Just spit balling to get the discussion going again on feudal warrior. I made this up in about 5 minutes during a video of driver's ed that I was teaching last night in the dark using the computer as light..... It would be so nice to see Teuts on the table again as they are a handsome army and I know lots of people own them.

Todd


I don't have my copy of FW so I can't grind out a better list. In place of that I ask the question which of the armies in the NICT would you feel comfortable going against? It seems to me to do nothing well. The LC can't compete against most othe LC. The LMI don't hold terain well against most other LMI that will be better morale or equiped. The knights are good but also in the case of the crusaders brittle and difficult to control. Again I don't have the lists handy so I can't offer much in the way of suggestions. If any of the prussians can be upgraded to C 1 each is obvious.
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lilroblis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject: Teutonics

Terry good question, I struggle with taking a list like this to the few tournaments I get to play - because it is not very good.
So I play about 6 armies - and enjoy, but there are lots which are just not enough fun or good enough to play - this is one and I have it painted in both scales
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Terry,

I certainly understand that there are many, many lists that have some serious flaws in them - previous post of "A" lists by me:

Seleucid
Alex Imperial
Sassinid Persian
Early Burgundian
100 Years War
Nikephoran Byzantine
Khmer
Ming/10IS
Sicilian Hof.
Ghaznavid


A-/B+ - on the cusp, but a few too many weaknesses or something lacking

Mongol - tough to pop an enemy - lack of punch if it can't find a flank
Late Roman (knights just plain kill them)
Han - great troops, but not enough bang to punch through an enemy. Tried it myself numerous times as have many.
Later Carthos
Timurid - not enough points to get everything you need.
KoSJ - morale (see past post)
Wallachian
Tepanec -
New to list - Granadine

While we certainly have power gamers who only bring a few lists to tournaments because they are the most likely to win with list - there are a few of us who like making lists that are fun historically and are willing to run them against tough competition (ummmm.... Abyssinian comes to mind) Jake loves his Poles, Irish, etc... as does Phil. I love seeing the historical flavor of lists and what they may look like on the table. Some are able to run lists that look horribly flawed but they run them well - and others make lists that are nice on paper but don't work well on the table vs uber armies (Mark Stone's Early Poles come to mind).

I'm going to keep throwing lists out there to keep up the discussion and juices flowing.

Todd

Maybe we run a tournament in the future that excludes all the "A and A-" lists and we'll see what we get. Shocked

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject: A and B lists

Add Byzantine- and Todd to quote from someone else you should get the iron ass award for playing armies you love but dont win, I like a good fight and many lists do not give that - so for a weekend of my life I play something I enjoy and has a shot, Ghaznavid, Cathaginian, Seluicid, Knights etc.
I have played Berbers, Chinese, etcin nationals - and had fun - but a plain bad list liek Teutonic - no thanks
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
Terry,

I certainly understand that there are many, many lists that have some serious flaws in them - previous post of "A" lists by me:

Seleucid
Alex Imperial
Sassinid Persian
Early Burgundian
100 Years War
Nikephoran Byzantine
Khmer
Ming/10IS
Sicilian Hof.
Ghaznavid


A-/B+ - on the cusp, but a few too many weaknesses or something lacking

Mongol - tough to pop an enemy - lack of punch if it can't find a flank
Late Roman (knights just plain kill them)
Han - great troops, but not enough bang to punch through an enemy. Tried it myself numerous times as have many.
Later Carthos
Timurid - not enough points to get everything you need.
KoSJ - morale (see past post)
Wallachian
Tepanec -
New to list - Granadine

While we certainly have power gamers who only bring a few lists to tournaments because they are the most likely to win with list - there are a few of us who like making lists that are fun historically and are willing to run them against tough competition (ummmm.... Abyssinian comes to mind) Jake loves his Poles, Irish, etc... as does Phil. I love seeing the historical flavor of lists and what they may look like on the table. Some are able to run lists that look horribly flawed but they run them well - and others make lists that are nice on paper but don't work well on the table vs uber armies (Mark Stone's Early Poles come to mind).

I'm going to keep throwing lists out there to keep up the discussion and juices flowing.

Todd

Maybe we run a tournament in the future that excludes all the "A and A-" lists and we'll see what we get. Shocked


Oh I definitely understand the idea of making a list for its own sake, I did play Japanese 2 years ago simply because I needed a reason to paint the lead I already had. I still plan on tweaking that list so I can see if it can be a bit more competitive. I'm with Robert I want my 5 or so games a year to be fun and feel like I have a chance of winning. I just don't see how this can fulfil that need.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:30 pm    Post subject:

In playing around with the list again and having Ben M play it against me - new thoughts:

Later Teutonic Order (L)
1604 points – 79 scouting

CIC 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + PA 232
Sub 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + P 162
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103

2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38

6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B - 72
6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B – 72

6E Feudal Skir Ir C LC B/Cb 73

6E Livonian Foot Reg D (1C) LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh 98
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
4E Livonian Bow Reg D LMI B,Sh 58

4E English Longbowmen Reg C LHI/LMI Lb ˝ 2HCW,Sh (2 stakes) 94

6E Livonian Archers Ir C LI B 37

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
In playing around with the list again and having Ben M play it against me - new thoughts:

Later Teutonic Order (L)
1604 points – 79 scouting

CIC 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + PA 232
Sub 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + P 162
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103
2E Knights/Ser Reg B SHK/HC - 103

2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38

6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B - 72
6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B – 72

6E Feudal Skir Ir C LC B/Cb 73

6E Livonian Foot Reg D (1C) LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh 98
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
4E Livonian Bow Reg D LMI B,Sh 58

4E English Longbowmen Reg C LHI/LMI Lb ˝ 2HCW,Sh (2 stakes) 94

6E Livonian Archers Ir C LI B 37


Not sure you need the Irr C LC unit, and if you did run one, why not 7E?

As for the English longbowmen, you can't run them along with the Livonians. Drop those (as you don't want to have to run the Prussian LC as JLS,Sh). The Livonian LMI are enough of 'that kind of thing'.

You've mislabeled the Livonian Archers as Irr C...but correctly paid for Irr D (which they are). Get all 8 elements.

XB is a pretty terrible weapon for light cav (or mounted in general)...so 2 units of Reg B LC XB are fine and probably enough.

One unit of 7E Irr D(1 C) LI JLS,Sh is not terrible as an additional terrain unit on 55 points. It's not that great either, but the extra element in back really helps resist shooting.

You are correct in that given the Teutonic Knight special rules...there's no reason to run Crusader Knights any longer, Irr A notwithstanding.

It's pretty dangerous, though, to have so many knight units with HC back ranks.

I've playtested having just the generals with HC backs...but that's pretty bad too.

Think about running knight units as all SHK...and making up the 'extra lancer unit' total with the HC, who can support the LC and LI.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject:

I run the extra LC to get the 18 scouting and you are high that Cb sucks BUT at least 1/2 can be B but you only get 6E. I like the Reg B units - flanks and they can hold a fair amount of space as Reb B with counters.

Bummer -just read the restrictions on English….. sigh…..

I guess using the points for back rank SHK

Will revise

Todd

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, see if you can have some more back rank SHK and keep it at least 16 units, hopefully 18 (2 commands of 9 have a pretty good break point of both 5).

The 2E Reg B LC units do have the virtue of extending the number of units a command has, and being cheap...but as you play them you'll wish they were Bow...or JLS,Sh...XB is terrible.

Keep the Livonian LMI as you have them.
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Todd Kaeser
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:37 pm    Post subject:

Later Teutonic Order (L)
1604 points – 78 scouting

CIC 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + PA 232
Sub 2E Brother Knights Reg A/B SHK L,Sh + P 162
2E Knights Reg A/B SHK - 133
2E Knights Reg A/B SHK- 133
2E Knights/Ser Reg A/B SHK/HC - 106
2E Knights/Ser Reg A/B SHK/HC - 106

2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38
2E Mounted X-Bow Reg B LC CB 38

6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B - 72
6E Livonian Cav Reg D (1C) LC B – 72

6E Feudal Skir Ir C LC B/Cb 73

6E Livonian Foot Reg D (1C) LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,Sh 98
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
4E Livonian Foot Reg C LMI 2CHW,Jls,Sh/Jls,B,Sh 90
6E Livonian Bow Reg D LMI B,Sh 82

8E Livonian Archers Ir D LI B 41

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:38 pm    Post subject:

I had to look again - only allowed 4E of Reg B SHK....

Added 2E of bowmen, upped a bit of LI, 2 units of full SHK....

Todd

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Todd Kaeser wrote:
I had to look again - only allowed 4E of Reg B SHK....

Added 2E of bowmen, upped a bit of LI, 2 units of full SHK....

Todd


Yup...that looks right. Give it a try!
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