Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Beyond the mechanical workings of the rules, can the experts offer
some educational tactical maxims for Warrior? I expect some wisdom
from WRG7th is still of value, the rest treacherously misleading.

Regards

Mike

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/19/2004 2:58:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "mailtomikek"
<mailtomikek@...> writes:

>Beyond the mechanical workings of the rules, can the experts offer
>some educational tactical maxims for Warrior?  I expect some wisdom
>from WRG7th is still of value, the rest treacherously misleading.>>

Ok, here's my first one to start thing off. I always tell players I am
teaching: until you have played longer, never put your LC in front of another of
your own units.

Jon

[Mark Stone]

--- On July 19 Jon Becker said: ---

> I'll throw in something I've learned. To play warrior consistently well you
> have to master three areas: army selection, terrain use, and actual
> on-table play. Learn on-table play first and then worry about the other
> two.

I agree that terrain use and army selection are the lesser factors, but they are
also the ones you can do something about "away" from the table. So they are
worth spending time on.

For example: if you want to play on mostly open terrain, the optimal 4 terrain
picks are: road - open space - open space - hill. You can reason through why
that's the correct answer in the abstract, without having an actual game and/or
opponent.

In terms of on-table play: I have a lengthy piece I've been working on about
skirmisher doctrine in general, but I'll put this thought out to the list for
now: If you have a reasonable cavalry army (at least 4 units of lance-armed
cavalry and at least 16 figures of light cavalry serves as a good reference
point for what counts as "reasonable"), then you really can't go wrong by
adding as much shielded light infantry with bow as your list allows.


-Mark Stone

[joncleaves]

If you have a reasonable cavalry army (at least 4 units of lance-armed
>cavalry and at least 16 figures of light cavalry serves as a good reference
>point for what counts as "reasonable"), then you really can't go wrong by
>adding as much shielded light infantry with bow as your list allows.>>

damnit, Mark, you're onto my 2006 plan....lol

Jon

[Steve Hollowell]

I am not an expert by any means, but I think my foolishness can help others.
Avoid traffic jams at all costs! Too many times I am trying to move troops to
get better match ups or meet a threat in another area and I end up with troops
blocking others. One wiseguy suggested I get an MP with a whistle to avoid
future traffic jams.

JonCleaves@... wrote:In a message dated 7/19/2004 2:58:24 PM Eastern
Daylight Time, "mailtomikek" writes:

>Beyond the mechanical workings of the rules, can the experts offer
>some educational tactical maxims for Warrior? I expect some wisdom
>from WRG7th is still of value, the rest treacherously misleading.>>

Ok, here's my first one to start thing off. I always tell players I am teaching:
until you have played longer, never put your LC in front of another of your own
units.

Jon




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I am not an expert by any means, but I think my foolishness can
help others. Avoid traffic jams at all costs!<

Foolish errors are the road to wisdom. I take your point. The
movement mechanics are somewhat like learning a stick shift after
driving automatic -- eventually it's routine, but there can be some
awkwardness, smoke, and grinding noises before then.

Thank you all for the great responses.

More nitty gritty details like Jon's LC point would be good too --
do you "usually shoot XB in 2 ranks" or should "foot always
impetuously charge heavy horse"?

The more sophisticated commments are interesting too -- but why 4
lancer units and not 3, or 5? Hmmm.

Thanks guys,

Mike

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/20/2004 01:56:12 Central Daylight Time,
sholl202000@... writes:

One wiseguy suggested I get an MP with a whistle to avoid future traffic
jams.



heck, Steve, I'll even paint him for you....lol

Jon the wise guy..


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/20/2004 06:41:45 Central Daylight Time,
pcelella@... writes:

Would it be a maxim to always keep
at least a 2 element gap between units in a second line of advance or
defence? And if it is more complex than this, could you elaborate?>>

I would not recommend a 'second line' at all to a newer player. Yes, it is
true that at least a small 'reserve' is vital to a win at the top level, but
it takes a while to be able to handle troops behind other troops in an
ancient/medieval army.

And less than a 2 element gap between units in the line else an enemy can
charge through it...

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Amen Brother,

Road blocking your troops can be the fastest way to defeat, especially for
irregular armies that have routers bursting through their irregular friends
causing them to break in a most horrible way!

kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/19/2004 2:58:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "mailtomikek"
<mailtomikek@...> writes:

>Beyond the mechanical workings of the rules, can the experts offer
>some educational tactical maxims for Warrior? I expect some wisdom
>from WRG7th is still of value, the rest treacherously misleading.>>

Ok, here's my first one to start thing off. I always tell players I am
teaching: until you have played longer, never put your LC in front of another of
your own units.

Jon

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So what would be some specifics for avoiding the traffic jams - I
keep having this problem myself. Would it be a maxim to always keep
at least a 2 element gap between units in a second line of advance or
defence? And if it is more complex than this, could you elaborate?

Thanks,

Peter

> Amen Brother,
>
> Road blocking your troops can be the fastest way to defeat,
especially for irregular armies that have routers bursting through
their irregular friends causing them to break in a most horrible way!
>

My thought for the first line is that it includes only your LI,
missile armed hopefully, and acting as a screen for your second line -
which would be your main battle line including heavy infantry and
such. Isn't this type of alignment vital even for a beginning player?
I wasn't even considering reserves.

>
> I would not recommend a 'second line' at all to a newer player.
Yes, it is
> true that at least a small 'reserve' is vital to a win at the top
level, but
> it takes a while to be able to handle troops behind other troops
in an
> ancient/medieval army.
>
> And less than a 2 element gap between units in the line else an
enemy can
> charge through it...
>
> J
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ewan McNay]

A LI line should ideally have no more than 500p between units. That
prevents the enemy from marching between your units and holding up
your main line; optimally, something less than about 300p, maybe, to
allow for some wiggle/manouvre.

Maxims off the top of my head:
* It's all about matchups. Getting your strike troops into their
designated targets, while preventing the enemy from doing the same, is
the whole game.
* LI are both overrated and underrated. Very diffficult to win a game
with LI (unless against a cav force without their own LI support), but
good/essential for both not losing and allowing the target matchups
(see above) that you want.
* Regular troops will sometimes get you out of the mess you've
created. Irregulars won't. Most (warning, wild generalisation) top
armies, and those used by top players, are largely regular.
* This applies mostly to support/manouovre troops. Strike troops can
be irregular, as when committed they should either win or bust.
* Don't roll dice against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

OK, need more caffeine.

Peter Celella wrote:

> My thought for the first line is that it includes only your LI,
> missile armed hopefully, and acting as a screen for your second line -
> which would be your main battle line including heavy infantry and
> such. Isn't this type of alignment vital even for a beginning player?
> I wasn't even considering reserves.
>
>
>>
>>I would not recommend a 'second line' at all to a newer player.
>
> Yes, it is
>
>>true that at least a small 'reserve' is vital to a win at the top
>
> level, but
>
>>it takes a while to be able to handle troops behind other troops
>
> in an
>
>>ancient/medieval army.
>>
>>And less than a 2 element gap between units in the line else an
>
> enemy can
>
>>charge through it...
>>
>>J
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Ewan McNay]

JonCleaves@... wrote:
> I would not recommend a 'second line' at all to a newer player. Yes, it is
> true that at least a small 'reserve' is vital to a win at the top level, but
> it takes a while to be able to handle troops behind other troops in an
> ancient/medieval army.

I'm not sure that it's even needed at the top level. Varies by army
type; a force of regular SHK is much more counterpunch - hence needs
reserves - than is ay a Burmese, where the elephants are a first and
second line all by themselves and couldn't redeploy even if they
wanted to.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:51:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Peter Celella"
<pcelella@...> writes:

>My thought for the first line is that it includes only your LI,
>missile armed hopefully, and acting as a screen for your second line ->>

Yes, nothing wrong with that and yes a newer player needs to practice with LI in
front of his troops. Not knowing how to get them out of the way when crunch
time comes is important. A skilled player can often use the enemy's LI
'against' him by forcing it to be 'in the way' of units that really should be
clean and free to fight.

>which would be your main battle line including heavy infantry and
>such. Isn't this type of alignment vital even for a beginning player?
>I wasn't even considering reserves.>>

I was talking about non-LI behind non-LI. Players of medieval armies especially
keep several units behind their main line and move them en masse to the point of
decision. This was hard to do back then and so also hard to do in Warrior
unless it is practiced. Not done right it can produce a traffic jam, which the
enemy can exploit.

I was also noting that the chief culprit in traffic jams suffered by newer
players is a unit of LC in the 'wrong' place.

Jon

[joncleaves]

>* Don't roll dice against a Sicilian when death is on the line.>>

All of Ewan's advice is spot on, but no part more so than the above...

J