Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

<< if a unit suffers 2, 3, or more combat disorders in hth , only one waver
test is taken? ( If true , have I been doing this wrong! )>.

Yep.

<<If a unit is disordered in prep shoting and again disorderd in hth, does
this generate a waver test for a second combat disorder? >>


Yep.

[Ed Forbes]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:15:44 EDT JonCleaves@... writes:
> Just one test per cause, Don. All combat disorders are one cause.
> I'll
> check the wording.
>
>

Hi Jon,

just to clarify this,

if a unit suffers 2, 3, or more combat disorders in hth , only one waver
test is taken? ( If true , have I been doing this wrong! )

If a unit is disordered in prep shoting and again disorderd in hth, does
this generate a waver test for a second combat disorder?

Thanks,
Ed F

[Ed Forbes]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 01:27:29 EDT JonCleaves@... writes:
> << if a unit suffers 2, 3, or more combat disorders in hth , only one
> waver
> test is taken? ( If true , have I been doing this wrong! )>.
>
> Yep.
>
> <<If a unit is disordered in prep shoting and again disorderd in
> hth, does
> this generate a waver test for a second combat disorder? >>
>
>
> Yep.
>

Ok, looks like I have to inform the local group.

If a inf unit was disordered in prep fire and then disordered by losing
to cav; the inf take a waver
If the cav then break through, again disordering the inf unit; We had
the inf take another waver

Not true, only one waver for ALL of hth. :(

Thanks,
Ed F

[Patrick Byrne]

If a unit recoils disordered but is then unable to recoil fully (ie. another
cause of disorder), is that two waiver checks or one?

If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one of the
options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit take
two waiver checks or one?
-PB

JonCleaves@... wrote:

> << if a unit suffers 2, 3, or more combat disorders in hth , only one waver
> test is taken? ( If true , have I been doing this wrong! )>.
>
> Yep.
>
> <<If a unit is disordered in prep shoting and again disorderd in hth, does
> this generate a waver test for a second combat disorder? >>
>
> Yep.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Assuming the recoiling unit is disordered from H-t-H AND this is it's
first disorder, then the second disorder from not being able to recoil
fully is PART of the original "recoil in disorder" result from the
Hand-to-Hand. No waver test. If the recoiling unit was disordered
BEFORE H-t-H, then either the "recoil in disorder" or "disorder for
not recoiling far enough" is enough for ONE waver test.

A unit that gets prep shot for 2cpf has to be able to do a certain
action or fulfill certain criteria or, if it cannot OR chooses not to
do those actions, it must waver test instead. The same unit shot for
3cpf, becomes disordered and must still abide by the choices for being
shot for 2cpf. No waver test UNLESS the unit cannot fulfill one of
the options OR chooses to take the waver test.

Since this is a combat cause of disorder, any FURTHER combat disorder
(support shot / H-t-H etc) will cause a waver test.

--- In WarriorRules@y..., Patrick Byrnes <cuan@f...> wrote:
> If a unit recoils disordered but is then unable to recoil fully (ie.
another
> cause of disorder), is that two waiver checks or one?
>
> If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform
one of the
> options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the
unit take
> two waiver checks or one?
> -PB
>
> JonCleaves@a... wrote:
>
> > << if a unit suffers 2, 3, or more combat disorders in hth , only
one waver
> > test is taken? ( If true , have I been doing this wrong! )>.
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > <<If a unit is disordered in prep shoting and again disorderd in
hth, does
> > this generate a waver test for a second combat disorder? >>
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[joncleaves]

<< > If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one
of
the options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
take two waiver checks or one?
> -PB

This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?

Don >>

If the body is already disordered, that would be two separate waver causes,
therefore two tests. Similar situation to a general's body making a rout
move. Guys in line of command within 120p will take two: one for the body
and one for their general.

[scott holder]

>>> jendon@... 4/4/01 6:08:00 AM >>>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Byrnes" <cuan@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] waver tests for disorder ?


> If a unit recoils disordered but is then unable to recoil fully (ie.
another
> cause of disorder), is that two waiver checks or one?

This one is easy. It is one. Jon has been VERY clear on this the past
couple of days.

> If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one of
the
> options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
take
> two waiver checks or one?
> -PB

This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?

>Early on in 7th, that was the way I ruled it. However, starting in the early
90s, I changed that. Since they occurred simultaeneously, only one check.

Scott

[Don Coon]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Byrnes" <cuan@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] waver tests for disorder ?


> If a unit recoils disordered but is then unable to recoil fully (ie.
another
> cause of disorder), is that two waiver checks or one?

This one is easy. It is one. Jon has been VERY clear on this the past
couple of days.

> If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one of
the
> options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
take
> two waiver checks or one?
> -PB

This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?

Don

[Don Coon]

Steve,

Patricks question may be worded poorly. Try: If a disordered body receives
3 CPF from prep shooting and can not or chooses not to take a "I got hit for
2 CPF in prep shooting" action does it take 1 waver test or 2? i.e one from
the 3 CPF causing disorder to a disordered body, and 1 for not taking a 2
CPF from prep shooting action.

Answere that one please. Jon?

Which order would the prep shooting results be dealt with in? Imagine a
fresh steady body getting hit for 3 CPF in prep and not having a (or
choosing not to take) 2 CPF from prep shooting result. He needs to take a
waver test for that, and if he failed would be shaken (and disordered).
Then taking a waver for the 3 CPF which causes disorder to a disordered body
(possibly breaking it). If the 3 CPF causes disorder was first, then only
one waver would be taken. I think we have been playing this wrong, and the
answere to Patricks question should be 1. i.e Prep shooting can cause a
maximum of 1 waver test.

Don

> A unit that gets prep shot for 2cpf has to be able to do a certain
> action or fulfill certain criteria or, if it cannot OR chooses not to
> do those actions, it must waver test instead. The same unit shot for
> 3cpf, becomes disordered and must still abide by the choices for being
> shot for 2cpf. No waver test UNLESS the unit cannot fulfill one of
> the options OR chooses to take the waver test.

In your answere above Steve, you even say "the same unit being shot for 3
CPF becomes disordered". If it had failed the waver test in the first part
of your answere, it would need another one now.

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/4/2001 06:47:22 Central Daylight Time,
Scott.Holder@... writes:

<< > If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one
of
the
> options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
take
> two waiver checks or one?
> -PB

This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?

>Early on in 7th, that was the way I ruled it. However, starting in the
early
90s, I changed that. Since they occurred simultaeneously, only one check. >>

[joncleaves]

Scott and I need to talk about this one. Now I have lost track.

>> If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one of
the options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
take two waiver checks or one?
> -PB

This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?

>>Early on in 7th, that was the way I ruled it. However, starting in the
early
90s, I changed that. Since they occurred simultaeneously, only one check.

Scott>>













































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>>

[Phil Gardocki]

In a message dated 4/5/01 7:02:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cuan@flash.net writes:


   If you are disordered and receive 3 CPF in prep shoot, that is a second combat cause of disorder which is an automatic waver check.  If you receive 2CPF from prep shoot, you must meet some condition or waver.  An example would be Cavalry must charge or waver.  So if the Cav is disordered, and 200 paces from the nearest enemy, and receives 3 cpf in prep shoot it is subject to 2 wavers by some interpretations (disordered and redisordered, and unable to charge) or waver (one cause, one waver)  In our area, we have counted it as 2 wavers and until these recent postings, I was unaware there was contention on this.  

Phil




I know in a later email that you said you and Scott were getting together on this
issue, but I was curious as to why it mattered if the body was already disordered
or not?
-pb

[Patrick Byrne]

I know in a later email that you said you and Scott were getting together on
this
issue, but I was curious as to why it mattered if the body was already
disordered
or not?
-pb

JonCleaves@... wrote:

> << > If a unit receives 3CPF from prep shooting and is unable to perform one
> of
> the options listed under "A body recieveing at least 2CPF....", does the unit
> take two waiver checks or one?
> > -PB
>
> This is an importnat question as we have always played it as 2. Jon?
>
> Don >>
>
> If the body is already disordered, that would be two separate waver causes,
> therefore two tests. Similar situation to a general's body making a rout
> move. Guys in line of command within 120p will take two: one for the body
> and one for their general.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

If the cav is disordered and then shot for 3cpf is an automatic waver
test. If they fail this test, they shake. OK, But then they STILL
need to look at the +2cpf responces. If the ONLY option they have
left is to "waver test or charge", then they must waver (shaken cannot
charge). If they were in skirmish however, they would be able to take
the recall (rally back in 7th) option so they would avoid the need to
take the waver test from the +2cpf table.

eg. HC skirmishers shot for +3cpf by foot decide to RECALL rather
than waver test then charge. Foot charge the HC (to keep the pressure
up) and HC evade. Next bound, the foot again shoot the HC for +3cpf.
HC MUST waver test BEFORE he decides what options are open to him. He
can STILL charge as long as he passes his automatic waver test. And
since he is no longer in skirmish, recall is no longer an option. If
the HC fail the automatic test, the only option left is the waver
test.

Question. If the FIRST cause of disorder was NON-combat (terrain,
remounted etc), is the +3cpf from prep shooting an automatic waver
test as it would be the first COMBAT cause of disorder.


--- In WarriorRules@y..., PHGamer@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/5/01 7:02:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cuan@f...
> writes:
>
>
> If you are disordered and receive 3 CPF in prep shoot, that is a
second
> combat cause of disorder which is an automatic waver check. If you
receive
> 2CPF from prep shoot, you must meet some condition or waver. An
example
> would be Cavalry must charge or waver. So if the Cav is disordered,
and 200
> paces from the nearest enemy, and receives 3 cpf in prep shoot it is
subject
> to 2 wavers by some interpretations (disordered and redisordered,
and unable
> to charge) or waver (one cause, one waver) In our area, we have
counted it
> as 2 wavers and until these recent postings, I was unaware there was
> contention on this.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> > I know in a later email that you said you and Scott were getting
together on
> > this
> > issue, but I was curious as to why it mattered if the body was
already
> > disordered
> > or not?
> > -pb
> >
> >

[Phil Gardocki]

The first cause of disorder is irrelevant to the 2nd cause.

Question.  If the FIRST cause of disorder was NON-combat (terrain, remounted etc), is the +3cpf from prep shooting an automatic waver test as it would be the first COMBAT cause of disorder.