Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[scott holder]

The Saturday Doubles tourney at Cold Wars will be Themed in 2018. We've done this before, this time taking the thematic idea from a couple of posts saying "do the Crusades".

This isn't as tight as we'd like. Quite frankly having KOSJ in here is a concession to someone's lead collection. With that in mind, we took the 4 actual Crusader lists plus KOSJ, then their enemies. No enemies of enemies and we had a deliberately-not-defined cutoff in the 1300s but not too late in the 1300s.

This tourney is weighted...downward. 2000pts was the max and everything else was negatively weighted if appropriate. If some of the army weightings seem draconian, that's cuz a lot of thought went into making them that way. I'm sure everybody will second guess the process regardless of what I say here.

Armies are shown with their point value with specific changes/restrictions listed underneath each army. Everything is from Holy Warrior--be aware that we will have an update to HW between now and then.

4-Arab Dynasty, 2000 pts
Foot that can purchase camels for mounted infantry may use them as a tethered animal, portable obstacle. If so used, not every element needs to be "mounted", just enough to cover whatever frontage you desire.
Change camel mounting costing to:
Extra to upgrade Arab Spearmen/Slingers/Archers and/or Dailami to mounted infantry on camels @ 20 pts if Dailami LHI, @ 10 pts if Dailami LI, @ 4 pts if Arab Spearmen, @ 2 pts if Slingers/Archers


5-Fatimid Egyptian, 1950 pts
Same foot/camel rules as #4.

9-Seljuk Turk, 1900 pts
No Ilkhanids

11-Cilician Armenian, 1900 pts
Early Period only.
Military Order Brother Knights/Sergeants may charge impetuously if not uneasy and/or tired.

12-First Crusade, 2000 pts
Generals may be upgraded to Irr A @ 2 pts
S standard may be added to CinC's element at no cost. S standard effects are ignored by: Sicilians.
Any Crusader Spearmen/Bowmen/Crossbowmen may be downgraded to Irr D as starving/exhausted (it's currently 0-1/2).
Crusader Spearmen/Bowmen/Crossbowmen & Danish/English Crusaders are allowed Shieldwall.
Dismounted Crusader Knights/Sergeants may adopt Crusader Order, Shieldwall and use Barbarian Rules.

13-Early Crusader States, 1950 pts
S standard may be added to CinC's element at no cost. S standard effects are ignored by: Saracens (and Saracen-led), Bedouins and Sicilians.

14-Komnenan Byzantine, 1800 pts
No Cumans, Serbians, Hungarians.
Any figure getting special rules costs +1pt per figure. This applies only to those troops covered by Byzantine Infantry Rules and Byzantine Cavalry Rules.
Military Order Crusader Knights may charge impetuously if not uneasy and/or tired. They do not pay the additional cost per figure as stated in the previous sentence.

17-Later Crusader States, 1850 pts
S standard may be added to CinC's element at no cost. S standard effects are ignored by: Saracens (and Saracen-led), Assassins, Syrians, Bedouins and Fatimids.
Any Byzantine figure getting special rules costs +1pt per figure.
Military Order Brother Knights/Sergeants may charge impetuously if not uneasy and/or tired.
Expand maximums as follows:
Outremer-led Turkopoles: 4-16

18-County of Edessa, 2000 pts
S standard may be added to CinC's element at no cost
(Not currently on the actual list, it is for this tourney). S standard effects are ignored by: Assassins.
Expand maximums as follows:
Knights/Sergeants: x-14 of each type
Turkopoles: 4-16
Foot Sergeants: x-36 of each type
Assassins: 0-8
Cilician Armenian Spearmen: 0-24

19-Syrian, 2000 pts
Military Order Crusader Knights may charge impetuously if not uneasy and/or tired.

21-Early Ottoman Turks, 1800 pts

23-Ayyubid Egyptian, 1900 pts

24-Knights of St John, 1850 pts
No SHK (and thus no Mercs, Organ Guns, Bombards per Notes)
No Cilician Armenian EHK
Increase Cilician Armenian Spearmen: *6-18

25-Mamluk Egyptian, 1900 pts
Early Period only

CRUSADER ORDER RULES UPDATE:
While in the Holy Land, the Crusaders developed novel tactics that allowed them to shelter their heavy mounted troops behind their foot until the moment was judged right to unleash their irresistible charge, whereupon the foot opened files to allow the mounted to pass through. In order to replicate this unusual tactic, the following rules apply to bodies containing only designated troops in Lists 5, 11-14, 17 and 18.
1. Infantry no more than three ranks deep may adopt “Crusader Order”:
a. It has the same characteristics as a block and must be marked or made obvious to the opponent in some way.
b. It must be entered using a maneuver (Warrior 6.12).
c. It reverts to a block on entering hand-to-hand combat or making any but an approach move.
d. While in Crusader Order, infantry may not charge or countercharge.
2. Mounted may voluntary interpenetrate steady infantry in Crusader Order (but not the reverse) as an exception to Warrior 6.52, without disordering either body, and are not subject to the limitation on shooting in the last sentence of the 6th paragraph of Warrior 6.52.
3. Interpenetrating troops that exceed their movement allowance remain subject to the limitations on charging and shooting in Warrior 6.51, provided that mounted who begin the Charge phase in base-to-base contact with infantry in Crusader Order measure an interpenetrating charge move from the front edge of the infantry and may shoot in Support Shooting for that charge.

[lilroblis]

Thats a problem - guess my Teutions will have to do double duty - or we could run KOSJ - but it is not a killer army at any time. So 1800 points will struggle - as my perception is it does not get better with extra points - but we will see.

[scott holder]

A bit more background.

Many years back we did in effect a Crusader Year. The Cold Wars Mini was a mini-campaign with armies up to 1204. At Hcon, the 1600 pt theme went with post-1204 armies and included the Balkans.

This time around, given we're going to do a tightly defined Teut theme down the line, I wanted to give similar treatment to the Crusades and figured the Doubles event would be fun and colorful.

scott

[derekcus]

No one will run Komnenan Byzantiine
200 points plus another 200 points for
the one point per figure

So a 1600 point army.

[Frank Gilson]

Derek,

Depends on exactly what you run...first off...no need to take any HC with special rules, just EHK/HK and LC.

Then, you decide how many Kontaratoi and Varangians you actually want.

It's options and overall capabilities are far in excess of almost any of the other lists...the troops are just better.

Thus the penalties...

We do realize that folks tend not to run lists with such penalties, and so we have generally switched to 'boosting' other lists instead.

However, there are limits to that...and 2000 points on a 8x5 table is one such.

Frank

[lilroblis]

So I would much prefer positive points - with some of these lists you dont need a team - because you are not playing with more troops than normal - 800 points is a skirmish -

[srawls]

How likely are any of these list rules to make it into the next HW update? Is it reasonable to start some playtesting amongst ourselves? Really looking at the changes to the Crusader lists themselves.

Steve

[Frank Gilson]

Few list or theme rules make it from themes into 'always' play.

Please do test for the event and provide commentary. It's very useful...even if you may not be attending.

Frank

[scott holder]

Steve:

Playtesting would be of great help.

[srawls]

So far, VERY happy with these:

4-Arab Dynasty, 2000 pts
Foot that can purchase camels for mounted infantry may use them as a tethered animal, portable obstacle. If so used, not every element needs to be "mounted", just enough to cover whatever frontage you desire.
Change camel mounting costing to:
Extra to upgrade Arab Spearmen/Slingers/Archers and/or Dailami to mounted infantry on camels @ 20 pts if Dailami LHI, @ 10 pts if Dailami LI, @ 4 pts if Arab Spearmen, @ 2 pts if Slingers/Archers


5-Fatimid Egyptian, 1950 pts
Same foot/camel rules as #4.

Would like to see them extended back to Arab Imperial as well, but that's a Dark Age list.

This as well:

12-First Crusade, 2000 pts
Generals may be upgraded to Irr A @ 2 pts
S standard may be added to CinC's element at no cost. S standard effects are ignored by: Sicilians.
Crusader Spearmen/Bowmen/Crossbowmen & Danish/English Crusaders are allowed Shieldwall

Really like this rule for the various Crusader armies:
Military Order Brother Knights/Sergeants may charge impetuously if not uneasy and/or tired.

You get my vote to add those rules to the HW update. I'll see if I can talk Jamie and Derek into playtesting some of those with me.
Steve

[scott holder]

FYI, Later Crusader States army size has been reduced to 1850.

[Arcrave]

For warrior doubles, do you build two armies from the desired list totalling the indicated points or build one army and split control between the two?

[Frank Gilson]

[Ed Kollmer]

Derek!
You know me. I love Byzantines and armies that are underdogs. What better a byzantine army that is an underdog....
Maybe I should consider going to CW and run Komenan Byz.
Who has the courage enough to team with me and run Komenan????

Remember caveat: I have never won a doubles (double courage)

[Arcrave]

Thank you. Also, I am surprised that the early Teutonic knights are not allowed.

Will there also be any other warrior tournaments at coldwars?