Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stone <mark@d...> wrote:
>Frank Gilson has extensive experience with
> Hundred Year's War English, so maybe he can follow up with some
commentary on
> that list.

Ok, Mark...I will . Dave Stier and I have played 100 Years War
English in the Team event to great effect a number of times.

Why?

The Longbowmen...that's the short answer.

Let me discuss some of the good points about the list, and the bad,
bit by bit.

First off, the Longbowmen...they start out as Reg C LMI LB. Some can
be downgraded to D morale to save points.

Shields and 2HCW can be added to any. Any can be upgraded to LHI.
Morale can be upgraded to Reg B for a significant number, one unit
can be Reg A.

Longbowmen have effective range at 120p, and fire at high factors
against armored troops. They're less useful firing against elephants
or unarmored troops than bow. Given armor upgrades and axes, they
fight reasonably well in many circumstances.

Use a mix of Longbowmen, some Reg D LMI LB half shields (with one
element of C so you can prompt to charge), some Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB.
If possible, look to perform morale upgrades on a few, but see my
disadvantages section.

Now, for the Knights. You have two kinds available...Regular and
Irregular.

The regular knights are models of efficiency. No knights anywhere
are point-cost as efficient. You take the front rank as SHK L,Sh and
the back rank as HK L...sure, just don't get them disordered .

What advantages does this have? Well...a 2E unit of Reg B SHK
L,Sh/HK L costs 103 points...a very cheap mounted shock unit.

They dismount very very well, also, to Reg B SHI 2HCW/EHI JLS,
giving you a powerful option for fighting certain enemy foot units.

Yes, you may have some trouble getting them charging impetuously, as
they are regular, and only Reg B...which can be made uneasy by one
cause, sadly.

So, take some of the available Irr B SHK L,Sh, expensive at 133
points per 2E unit, but solves impetuousity problems nicely.

You should have, on 1600 points, 5 or 6 units of knights, two of
which likely should be irregular (possible 3.)

Disadvantages! Yes, the list has a few.

It has relatively little in the way of LI and LC...so you'll be
outscouted almost every game. Don't buy any LC, it's poor and
minimal. Get the LI that you can, in a few small units for force
marching to seize table space.

If you want to upgrade the Longbow to Reg B or A, that requires you
take the CinC as a solid unit of Reg A SHK L,Sh...extremely
expensive at 235 points!

I think you need some Reg B (and one Reg A) units of LB, but this
needs testing on 1600 points. Dave and I definitely upgraded on 2000
points for Teams.

Other points:
Don't half upgrade LB units to LHI...you want 6E shooter units of
entirely LMI, and 2E and 4E units of entirely LHI for shooting AND
fighting with.

You can take some stakes, they're cheap...however Dave and I found
that we put them down, over several years, only two or three times.
They're for poor morale LB who may have to operate in the open
against mounted. Learn how they work and when to place them, but
also when NOT to.

You should probably buy one segment of Ditch. This gives you a
guaranteed terrain feature to anchor part of the table with. Learn
all the Temporary Fortification rules so that you understand how
they work. This Ditch can, under list rule, be placed in your
forward zone.

If there's enough interest, I can post a couple of lists...let me
know.

Frank

[Todd Kaeser]

I recently played Early Burgundian and it give you a few options similar to the
100 Years War list.

6 units of 2E Ir B SHK (CinC and 1 Sub)
4 units of 6E Reg D (1 element C) LMI LB, 1/2 sh + stakes
4 units of 2E Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB throughout
6 units of 2E Reg D LI CB
1 unit of Ir C HC CB (required and an excellent cheerleader & camp guard)

Interesting list. Not a lot of scouting, but the LI holds the front. The
knights bring a ton of punch and there is a fair amount of shooting.

I didn't have to face any elephants, but the LB matchup would have been
interesting. Any Ir B elephants would have posed a huge threat. I also didn't
face any Macedonians which would have been a tough matchup as well.



Frank Gilson <franktrevorgilson@...> wrote:
--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stone <mark@d...> wrote:
>Frank Gilson has extensive experience with
> Hundred Year's War English, so maybe he can follow up with some
commentary on
> that list.

Ok, Mark...I will . Dave Stier and I have played 100 Years War
English in the Team event to great effect a number of times.

Why?

The Longbowmen...that's the short answer.

Let me discuss some of the good points about the list, and the bad,
bit by bit.

First off, the Longbowmen...they start out as Reg C LMI LB. Some can
be downgraded to D morale to save points.

Shields and 2HCW can be added to any. Any can be upgraded to LHI.
Morale can be upgraded to Reg B for a significant number, one unit
can be Reg A.

Longbowmen have effective range at 120p, and fire at high factors
against armored troops. They're less useful firing against elephants
or unarmored troops than bow. Given armor upgrades and axes, they
fight reasonably well in many circumstances.

Use a mix of Longbowmen, some Reg D LMI LB half shields (with one
element of C so you can prompt to charge), some Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB.
If possible, look to perform morale upgrades on a few, but see my
disadvantages section.

Now, for the Knights. You have two kinds available...Regular and
Irregular.

The regular knights are models of efficiency. No knights anywhere
are point-cost as efficient. You take the front rank as SHK L,Sh and
the back rank as HK L...sure, just don't get them disordered .

What advantages does this have? Well...a 2E unit of Reg B SHK
L,Sh/HK L costs 103 points...a very cheap mounted shock unit.

They dismount very very well, also, to Reg B SHI 2HCW/EHI JLS,
giving you a powerful option for fighting certain enemy foot units.

Yes, you may have some trouble getting them charging impetuously, as
they are regular, and only Reg B...which can be made uneasy by one
cause, sadly.

So, take some of the available Irr B SHK L,Sh, expensive at 133
points per 2E unit, but solves impetuousity problems nicely.

You should have, on 1600 points, 5 or 6 units of knights, two of
which likely should be irregular (possible 3.)

Disadvantages! Yes, the list has a few.

It has relatively little in the way of LI and LC...so you'll be
outscouted almost every game. Don't buy any LC, it's poor and
minimal. Get the LI that you can, in a few small units for force
marching to seize table space.

If you want to upgrade the Longbow to Reg B or A, that requires you
take the CinC as a solid unit of Reg A SHK L,Sh...extremely
expensive at 235 points!

I think you need some Reg B (and one Reg A) units of LB, but this
needs testing on 1600 points. Dave and I definitely upgraded on 2000
points for Teams.

Other points:
Don't half upgrade LB units to LHI...you want 6E shooter units of
entirely LMI, and 2E and 4E units of entirely LHI for shooting AND
fighting with.

You can take some stakes, they're cheap...however Dave and I found
that we put them down, over several years, only two or three times.
They're for poor morale LB who may have to operate in the open
against mounted. Learn how they work and when to place them, but
also when NOT to.

You should probably buy one segment of Ditch. This gives you a
guaranteed terrain feature to anchor part of the table with. Learn
all the Temporary Fortification rules so that you understand how
they work. This Ditch can, under list rule, be placed in your
forward zone.

If there's enough interest, I can post a couple of lists...let me
know.

Frank






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Frank Gilson]

Yup, Early Burgundian is an option for lots of efficient shooters
backed by SHK. I kind of hate having to take the HC CB unit, feels
like I'm playing with 61 points fewer than everybody else. I suppose
it can be sent on a flank march.

One thing that the early Burgundians can do is replace the back rank
of LB with CB...give it a shot. The numbers are interesting, one
case in particular.

Imagine a 2 model Macedonian Elephant with LI on the base (or a 2
element LI detachment.) That counts as 14 figures.

16 figures of CB firing, or 12 of LB, only do 24 from 120p...not 2
CPF. 8 of LB (front rank) and 8 of CB (back rank) do 28! The Magic 2
CPF achieved.

You are only hurt in some long range fire cases (against light
troops) by a back rank of CB, that shouldn't matter much.

Frank

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Kaeser <hailkaeser@y...>
wrote:
>
> I recently played Early Burgundian and it give you a few options
similar to the 100 Years War list.
>
> 6 units of 2E Ir B SHK (CinC and 1 Sub)
> 4 units of 6E Reg D (1 element C) LMI LB, 1/2 sh + stakes
> 4 units of 2E Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB throughout
> 6 units of 2E Reg D LI CB
> 1 unit of Ir C HC CB (required and an excellent cheerleader &
camp guard)
>
> Interesting list. Not a lot of scouting, but the LI holds the
front. The knights bring a ton of punch and there is a fair amount
of shooting.
>
> I didn't have to face any elephants, but the LB matchup would
have been interesting. Any Ir B elephants would have posed a huge
threat. I also didn't face any Macedonians which would have been a
tough matchup as well.

[John Murphy]

Free Company is an often-overlooked list that offers many of these
same features. I ran it like the following but I suspect the
configuration of the longbowmen could be improved by a different mix
of LMI/LHI and 2HCW...
1x CinC 2E Reg B SHK/EHK L,Sh (PA) @ 221 points
1x Sub 2E Reg B SHK/EHK L,Sh (P) @ 151 points
4x 2E Irr B/C SHK/HC L,Sh @ 103 points
6x 4E Reg C LHI 2HCW,LB,Sh/LB @ 106 points
2x 6E Irr C LI JLS,Sh @ 61 points
2x 4E Reg D LI CB @ 26 points

Having played Medieval Spanish just a few times though I must say
for this kind of thing I feel like it is a better list. In fact, I
considered a doubles list without the longbows but not sure what
this do when faced by a good skirmishing army...
1x CinC 2E RgA SHK/EHK L,Sh(PA) @226
2x Sub 2E RgA SHK/EHK L,Sh(P) @156
6x Knights 2E IrB SHK/EHK L,Sh @124
3x Moogs 6E IrB LMI HTW,JLS,Sh/HTW.JLS @106
1x Jinetes 6E IrC LC JLS,Sh @97
2x Slings 6E IrC LI S,Sh/S @55
2x Archer 6E IrC LI B @49
2x Xbow 6E IrC LI CB @49

But overall I have settled into playing Moldavians anyhow - which
Mark Stone mentioned as another army with knights and good support
troops (though I suspect he does it a bit differently with SHK even
though my method was inspired by his skirmisher paper, and Sean
Scott's Italian Condotta list). The really, really good LC (as good
as or better than Mongols actually in my opinion) combined with the
secret of actually really good LI makes a huge difference in
supporting the knights (which I just use the cheap but very
effective HK) and setting the plate. Quite the opposite feel to
play. Also when you want to kick back and have fun with them you can
just play over the top aggressive, finish in two hours, and mostly
come out okay if not the optimal approach all the time.