Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Garlic]

Hi Allan,

As a person who has and plays Han, I was glad to look at your take on the
list. My biggest weakness has always been my love of chariots. I like the
cheap
D infantry, but add an element of C to the front just to help in case need to
prompt a charge. How do you use your Southern Tribesmen? I'm just curious
for my own sake. I like the small regular units of Han Skirmishers for force
marching and generally mucking about. I've never really tried to employ the
big IRR LI units, but I assume they are part of your delaying force. I usually
use some of the Reg LC B Han as part of my delaying forces as well. Usually
in 4E units.

The cool thing about the Han are that there are so many possibilities. Have
you come up with any ideas on dealing with Pachyderms? I encountered them for
the first time in KC in January (Hi Charles and Jon) and definitely need to
do some work in that area. I was looking at a tandem of

2E and 4E Chixiong Irr A LMI 1/2 2HCT, Sh and 1/2 JLS, Sh.

The Xiongnu look like your strike elements. How did they work out? With the
list rules, I'm sure they were pretty tough.

Sorry I am probably posing more questions than answers. I don't have enough
experience against a breadth of opponents to offer as much in the way of
tactical suggestions.

John Garlic

In a message dated 3/1/2005 5:40:10 PM Central Standard Time,
redcoat24@... writes:
Han General 2E Reg A 4Horse LCh CB PA Std
Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
Di Warriors 4E Irr C LMI JLS, B, Sh
Di Archers 8E Irr C LI B
Baggage 4E Irr D Tr

Sub Total 724

Xiongnu General 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh P Std
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh

Sub Total 476

Total 1200


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/1/2005 17:40:27 Central Standard Time,
redcoat24@... writes:

Ok this version should be easier to read, I also put the names for units the
same as they are shown in OW, just to eliminate confusion.>>


Allan, I would like to caveat this by saying that you and I would appear to
have very different fighting styles and that I would not take the Xiongnu at
1200. But here are some suggestions you may find useful...

<<UnitElements
Han General 2E Reg A 4Horse LCh CB PA Std>>

I take my generals as 1E staff elements. They can join anyone to give them
a morale boost, get around quick, can join LC to use them as a back rank to
fight, cause unease, and don't take wavers when they see friends rout. They
can also join arty to tell them where to shoot, but that isn't a 1200 point
thing...

<<Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB>>

I tried to make these work under the old list and didn't have much luck.
The HI isn't very useful in an open tourney because the ubiquitous LB does not
care, and neither does 2HCT, 2HCW, HTW. You don't *have* to mix these any
more, although I sometimes do because I have learned how to employ the cheap
version of this as support troops. The LTS can be close and act as poor man's
hoplites and the CB can be loose and thus able to skirmish.

<<Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh>>

I take these, but with front rank 2HCW. But I never take these before I
take all of the very cool Chixiong with 2HCT/JLS. *That's* your El killer...

<Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B>>

Ok, although I don't take these at 1200, I do at 1600 and 2000.

<<Di Warriors 4E Irr C LMI JLS, B, Sh
Di Archers 8E Irr C LI B>>

I don't take these - they can be fun, but there are other things I want.

I don't see the mandatory Reg HC....?

<<Xiongnu General 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh P Std
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh>>

I don't take these - not because they aren't cool, but because I am not
generally a light troops guy.

What I do spend my points on is those guard troops and the marksmen.

Oh, and foot CB does just fine in many more situations than people think.
They may get a worse factor than LB in a lot of situations, but they get more
figs shooting, which evens out and is actually better when you roll up. They
also shoot EL at 120p and shoot SHC to DEATH - which is great fun....

J




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 3/1/2005 22:30:54 Central Standard Time,
JonCleaves@... writes:

I don't see the mandatory Reg HC....?>>


Oh, I see - you didn't take any Han mounted but chariots since you took the
Xiongnu.. I agree with that *if* you take the Xiongnu, but as i said, i
don't like the Xiongnu at 1200 - table is too small and you have to take too
much
of it as a percentage of your force. I'm just not big on lights...

J








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok this version should be easier to read, I also put the names for units the
same as they are shown in OW, just to eliminate confusion.

UnitElements
Han General 2E Reg A 4Horse LCh CB PA Std
Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
Di Warriors 4E Irr C LMI JLS, B, Sh
Di Archers 8E Irr C LI B
Baggage 4E Irr D Tr

Sub Total 724

Xiongnu General 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh P Std
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh

Sub Total 476

Total 1200



Allan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey there, John

The southern tribesmen are "intended" to be a reserve counter punch to
support my 2 Line units. Han infantry are good, but I've found that a
counter punch applied to an enemy already in contact will break them most of
the time. However, what usually happens, is the end up on woods clearing
duty. They are great at this.

I find my opponents usually try to shut down my cavalry by plunking down
lots of forest. So, I use that as an opportunity to get into the woods
aggressively, break through, and then threaten the enemy flanks or rear.
That is what happened in the games I won this weekend. They dont go alone, I
use the Di warriors for this, so that's almost 200 points of guys attacking
through one forest.

I really like Xiongnu, but they are hard to handle. Any time you need to
make sharp change of direction you lose almost all your movement. I have to
get better at predicting where the Nobles need to be. The other challenge,
is that since you need an ally general, so you cant give them any LI or LMI
in their command for support. They don't usually win the battle for me, they
are really just on par with any army that has good cavalry. So at least I
don't have to worry about the enemy cavalry being better. They usually kill
something though, and many times they have totally ransacked the enemy rear
areas. That's always fun.

OW has changed some of the ways I use the army. Needing an Ally general is a
big change. I was also surprised to see they could not have both lance and
shield when OW came out so I opted to use JLS this weekend. I understand
why FHE did that, so it's not a critisism. It's good to see that they put so
much thought into it. The big difference it will make, is that I have to
make tough choices about using Regular cavalry if I insist on using the
Xiongnu. I used to just stick the Xiongnu with my Regular HC 2iC. At 1200
points, I can't have a Regular 2iC any more. Since I needed an Ally General,
I took a lot more of them than I normally would have in order to get my
monies worth. So, you will notice that I didn't have any Regular cavalry and
I really missed them. Regulars seem to respond better to a rapidly changing
situation. Oh well.


Allan


----- Original Message -----
From: <jmgarlic@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 1200 point Han list reposted


>
> Hi Allan,
>
> As a person who has and plays Han, I was glad to look at your take on the
> list. My biggest weakness has always been my love of chariots. I like
> the cheap
> D infantry, but add an element of C to the front just to help in case need
> to
> prompt a charge. How do you use your Southern Tribesmen? I'm just
> curious
> for my own sake. I like the small regular units of Han Skirmishers for
> force
> marching and generally mucking about. I've never really tried to employ
> the
> big IRR LI units, but I assume they are part of your delaying force. I
> usually
> use some of the Reg LC B Han as part of my delaying forces as well.
> Usually
> in 4E units.
>
> The cool thing about the Han are that there are so many possibilities.
> Have
> you come up with any ideas on dealing with Pachyderms? I encountered them
> for
> the first time in KC in January (Hi Charles and Jon) and definitely need
> to
> do some work in that area. I was looking at a tandem of
>
> 2E and 4E Chixiong Irr A LMI 1/2 2HCT, Sh and 1/2 JLS, Sh.
>
> The Xiongnu look like your strike elements. How did they work out? With
> the
> list rules, I'm sure they were pretty tough.
>
> Sorry I am probably posing more questions than answers. I don't have
> enough
> experience against a breadth of opponents to offer as much in the way of
> tactical suggestions.
>
> John Garlic
>
> In a message dated 3/1/2005 5:40:10 PM Central Standard Time,
> redcoat24@... writes:
> Han General 2E Reg A 4Horse LCh CB PA Std
> Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
> Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
> Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
> Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
> Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
> Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
> Di Warriors 4E Irr C LMI JLS, B, Sh
> Di Archers 8E Irr C LI B
> Baggage 4E Irr D Tr
>
> Sub Total 724
>
> Xiongnu General 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh P Std
> Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
>
> Sub Total 476
>
> Total 1200
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Great advice Jon. I see quite a few things here I can use.


Thanks

Allan
----- Original Message -----
From: <JonCleaves@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] 1200 point Han list reposted


>
>
> In a message dated 3/1/2005 17:40:27 Central Standard Time,
> redcoat24@... writes:
>
> Ok this version should be easier to read, I also put the names for units
> the
> same as they are shown in OW, just to eliminate confusion.>>
>
>
> Allan, I would like to caveat this by saying that you and I would appear
> to
> have very different fighting styles and that I would not take the Xiongnu
> at
> 1200. But here are some suggestions you may find useful...
>
> <<UnitElements
> Han General 2E Reg A 4Horse LCh CB PA Std>>
>
> I take my generals as 1E staff elements. They can join anyone to give
> them
> a morale boost, get around quick, can join LC to use them as a back rank
> to
> fight, cause unease, and don't take wavers when they see friends rout.
> They
> can also join arty to tell them where to shoot, but that isn't a 1200
> point
> thing...
>
> <<Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB
> Spearmen/Crossbowmen 8E Reg D HI 1/2 2HCT, Sh 1/2 MI CB>>
>
> I tried to make these work under the old list and didn't have much luck.
> The HI isn't very useful in an open tourney because the ubiquitous LB
> does not
> care, and neither does 2HCT, 2HCW, HTW. You don't *have* to mix these
> any
> more, although I sometimes do because I have learned how to employ the
> cheap
> version of this as support troops. The LTS can be close and act as poor
> man's
> hoplites and the CB can be loose and thus able to skirmish.
>
> <<Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh
> Southern Tribesmen 2E Irr A LMI JLS, Sh>>
>
> I take these, but with front rank 2HCW. But I never take these before I
> take all of the very cool Chixiong with 2HCT/JLS. *That's* your El
> killer...
>
> <Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B
> Han Skirmishers 4E Reg D LI B>>
>
> Ok, although I don't take these at 1200, I do at 1600 and 2000.
>
> <<Di Warriors 4E Irr C LMI JLS, B, Sh
> Di Archers 8E Irr C LI B>>
>
> I don't take these - they can be fun, but there are other things I want.
>
> I don't see the mandatory Reg HC....?
>
> <<Xiongnu General 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh P Std
> Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Nobles 2E Irr B HC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh
> Xiongnu Archers 6E Irr C LC JLS, B, 1/2 Sh>>
>
> I don't take these - not because they aren't cool, but because I am not
> generally a light troops guy.
>
> What I do spend my points on is those guard troops and the marksmen.
>
> Oh, and foot CB does just fine in many more situations than people think.
> They may get a worse factor than LB in a lot of situations, but they get
> more
> figs shooting, which evens out and is actually better when you roll up.
> They
> also shoot EL at 120p and shoot SHC to DEATH - which is great fun....
>
> J
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>