Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Salutations, gentlefolk!

Way back when, I played some WRG 7th, mainly with a 15mm Late
Carthaginian army. Then I wentover to The Rules Known By The
Three-Letter Acronym, and acquired a 25mm Macedonian army.

Noow I have gotten the Warrior rules, and am looking forward to a
competition in a couple of weeks. Here's my draft army list.
(written in a monospace font)

Anyone want to provide advice, corrections, encouragement,
sacrificial beasts, etc ???

Yours, John Desmond
john.a.desmond.cgs80@...
( permanent address for receiving Email )


oooo oooo oooo oooo oooo oooo oooo


1200 point Warrior army - May 2002
Alexandrian Macedonian, 331 BC
WRG List 36, with WRG & NASAMW errata


Figures Reg/Irr
Unit Type Morale
Pts/fig
Command points
Unit total

CinC - + 5 Hetaroi 5 HC, L 10 R A 100 150
Sub Gen + 2 Hetaroi 2 HC, L 10 R A 50 70
Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10 R A 10 70
Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10 R A 10 70
Prodromoi 8 LC, L 7 R B 10 66
Prodromoi 4 LC, L 7 R B 10 38
Thessalians 12 HC, JLS 9 R B 10 118

Sub Gen + 15 Hypaspists 15 MI, Pk, Sh 5 R B 50 125
Phalanx 32 MI, Pk, Sh 4 R C 10 138
Cretan bow 16 LI, Bw 3 R C 10 58
Agrianians 12 LI, JLS, Sh 4 R C 10 58

Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4 I C 25 61 Front rank of
unit
Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3 I C 27 Second rank
Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4 I C 25 61 Front rank
Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3 I C 27 Second rank
Rhodians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4 R C 10 34
Agrianians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4 R C 10 34

Point total of army 1205





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ewan McNay]

On Sat, 11 May 2002 jafd26@... wrote:
> Anyone want to provide advice, corrections, encouragement,
> sacrificial beasts, etc ???

I don't believe that flaming pige are an option on this list . [And off
the cuff, I don't *know* that Els are, either, but I *think* so - right?
In which case, i would take some in place of some of your cav to give an
attack force.

However, on the basis of the list below, my general comment is that your
units are too large. This is a regular, high morale army, and so you
should be playing a manouvre game; you want lots of small units.
Specifically:

> Unit Type Morale
> CinC - + 5 Hetaroi 5 HC, L 10 R A 100 150
> Sub Gen + 2 Hetaroi 2 HC, L 10 R A 50 70
> Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10 R A 10 70
> Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10 R A 10 70

This is too many Reg A types for my taste; they're way expensive for their
effectiveness. I'd downgrade both Hetaroi units (if possible; as I say,
this is off the cuff). Assume save 24 pts. Also, if you have one staff
element, it should be the CinC rather than a Sub; the CinC should be the
last guy to fight in this army most of the time.

> Prodromoi 8 LC, L 7 R B 10 66

LC w/ L and no shield are essentially toast to any opponent. Their only
use (ok, this may be a slight overstatement) is to go onto flanks. Hence,
they need to be in units of 4. Cost 10 pts to split this unit.

> Prodromoi 4 LC, L 7 R B 10 38
> Thessalians 12 HC, JLS 9 R B 10 118

While not quite as useless as the LC, L , these aren't great and I would
again wish to play a manouivre game; they have the great advantage of
being able to skirmish. Split into 2x6 - *much* more effective than 1
12-man unit. Cost 10.

> Sub Gen + 15 Hypaspists 15 MI, Pk, Sh 5 R B 50 125
> Phalanx 32 MI, Pk, Sh 4 R C 10 138

This is actually an ok-size unit. However, I strongly question the
effectiveness of a hypaspist subgeneral; you sacrifice a general who could
potentially be getting your cav to charge impetuously, and even if not his
mobility is much lower than it would be in a cav unit (although he will be
somewhat safer!). I'd spend the points elsewhere; that saves you 35.

> Cretan bow 16 LI, Bw 3 R C 10 58

Make 2x8.

> Agrianians 12 LI, JLS, Sh 4 R C 10 58

I'd have these as 3x4; in any case a 12-man unit is too big. Assuming
3x4, the extra LI command points are +30.

> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4 I C 25 61 Front rank of
> unit
> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3 I C 27 Second rank
> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4 I C 25 61 Front rank
> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3 I C 27 Second rank
> Rhodians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4 R C 10 34
> Agrianians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4 R C 10 34

This is all good. I think I saved you 9 points overall, so make one of
your 4-man LI units into a 6-man.

E

[Ewan McNay]

On Sun, 12 May 2002, Phillip (Tony) Lindman wrote:
> With most of your comments being to shrink his large units, I'm surprised
> you didn't object to these two 18 element bodies of peltasts. Did you
> misread John's intent here, or does the fact that they are irregulars make
> the larger bodies more appropriate?
>
> I'm curious, as I am another new player who also has a Alexandrian
> Macedonian army.

18-man, not 18-element (which would be illegal and hideously expensive!).
And yes, i think that's an apppropriate size for an Irreg LMI unit -any
smaller and it's too easy to just blow up from CPF, given the doublng of
all hth CPF.

>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I like Ewan's comments on the list, and I agree from
experience on the LC L...they suck! One use, however,
it to line 3 2E units up against one 6E LC B unit in
such a way that they can only shoot 2 of yours; then
charge with the 3rd....still dice driven :)

Where I'd make a change from Ewan's commentary is that
I'd buy all the subG I could, but them on RgA 2E HC L
units and place them (their only units are their own)
between the pikes and peltast to use as missiles.
Grind the foot closer and try to push the enemy off
the board, then send in impetouos subG rockets when
opportunities arise. They are going to explode after
they charge, so you want them to detonate somewhere
240p in front of your main line (after charge, kill,
pursue, get struck in flank, explode in place) :)

I agree that P armed El would also add much weight to
your pike push, but that is the Alex Imperial list.
Ran it my first 3 years of 7th.

4E P units help when fighting irreg Jls armed LMI
types, as you can out manuver them and force them to
charge your steady Pike to make headway, or get in a
position in which you can send in a HC rocket to blow
them off.

boyd

--- ewan.mcnay@... wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2002 jafd26@... wrote:
> > Anyone want to provide advice, corrections,
> encouragement,
> > sacrificial beasts, etc ???
>
> I don't believe that flaming pige are an option on
> this list . [And off
> the cuff, I don't *know* that Els are, either, but I
> *think* so - right?
> In which case, i would take some in place of some of
> your cav to give an
> attack force.
>
> However, on the basis of the list below, my general
> comment is that your
> units are too large. This is a regular, high morale
> army, and so you
> should be playing a manouvre game; you want lots of
> small units.
> Specifically:
>
> > Unit Type
> Morale
> > CinC - + 5 Hetaroi 5 HC, L 10
> R A 100 150
> > Sub Gen + 2 Hetaroi 2 HC, L 10
> R A 50 70
> > Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10
> R A 10 70
> > Hetaroi 6 HC, L 10
> R A 10 70
>
> This is too many Reg A types for my taste; they're
> way expensive for their
> effectiveness. I'd downgrade both Hetaroi units (if
> possible; as I say,
> this is off the cuff). Assume save 24 pts. Also,
> if you have one staff
> element, it should be the CinC rather than a Sub;
> the CinC should be the
> last guy to fight in this army most of the time.
>
> > Prodromoi 8 LC, L 7
> R B 10 66
>
> LC w/ L and no shield are essentially toast to any
> opponent. Their only
> use (ok, this may be a slight overstatement) is to
> go onto flanks. Hence,
> they need to be in units of 4. Cost 10 pts to split
> this unit.
>
> > Prodromoi 4 LC, L 7
> R B 10 38
> > Thessalians 12 HC, JLS 9
> R B 10 118
>
> While not quite as useless as the LC, L , these
> aren't great and I would
> again wish to play a manouivre game; they have the
> great advantage of
> being able to skirmish. Split into 2x6 - *much*
> more effective than 1
> 12-man unit. Cost 10.
>
> > Sub Gen + 15 Hypaspists 15 MI, Pk, Sh 5
> R B 50 125
> > Phalanx 32 MI, Pk, Sh 4
> R C 10 138
>
> This is actually an ok-size unit. However, I
> strongly question the
> effectiveness of a hypaspist subgeneral; you
> sacrifice a general who could
> potentially be getting your cav to charge
> impetuously, and even if not his
> mobility is much lower than it would be in a cav
> unit (although he will be
> somewhat safer!). I'd spend the points elsewhere;
> that saves you 35.
>
> > Cretan bow 16 LI, Bw 3
> R C 10 58
>
> Make 2x8.
>
> > Agrianians 12 LI, JLS, Sh 4
> R C 10 58
>
> I'd have these as 3x4; in any case a 12-man unit is
> too big. Assuming
> 3x4, the extra LI command points are +30.
>
> > Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4
> I C 25 61 Front rank of
> > unit
> > Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3
> I C 27 Second rank
> > Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4
> I C 25 61 Front rank
> > Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3
> I C 27 Second rank
> > Rhodians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4
> R C 10 34
> > Agrianians 6 LI, Sl, Sh 4
> R C 10 34
>
> This is all good. I think I saved you 9 points
> overall, so make one of
> your 4-man LI units into a 6-man.
>
> E
>
>


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Not speaking for Ewan, but for myself, there is a
trade off with Irreg foot. First you want smaller
units in order to be able to get them into spaces in
order to pull off an impet. charge. However, at 25pt
per unit, this gets expensive. Irreg foot take 2 cpf
per in HTH, so size starts to matter when fighting.
If you run them 2 wide and 3 deep, then you count only
half the rear rank for cpf calculations; however, if
you run them 3x2, then you often leave a flank hanging
open in which a smart player will charge some 2E HC L
type unit; that will hurt. BTW, I think it is a 6E
unit, not 18E. Hope not! 18 figures = 6E.

Also might I suggest a different list? The old Alex
Imperial list...IIRC....gets P armed El, and mixed
Pike/bow units. Also you pick up some better LC with
B instead of L, and I think there are some good LI
with S/sh--excellent stand and receive troops v
Kn-iggits!

boyd



--- "Phillip (Tony) Lindman" <tony@...>
wrote:
> Ewan,
>
> Commenting on John D.'s list, you wrote
> >> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4
> I C 25 61 Front rank
> of unit
> >> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3
> I C 27 Second
> rank
> >> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, 2HCW, JLS, Sh 4
> I C 25 61 Front rank
> >> Thracian peltasts 9 LMI, JLS, Sh 3
> I C 27 Second
> rank
>
> > This is all good. I think I saved you 9 points
> overall, so make one of
> > your 4-man LI units into a 6-man.
> >
> > E
>
> With most of your comments being to shrink his large
> units, I'm surprised
> you didn't object to these two 18 element bodies of
> peltasts. Did you
> misread John's intent here, or does the fact that
> they are irregulars make
> the larger bodies more appropriate?
>
> I'm curious, as I am another new player who also has
> a Alexandrian
> Macedonian army.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>


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[Doug]

>Where I'd make a change from Ewan's commentary is that
>I'd buy all the subG I could, but them on RgA 2E HC L
>units and place them (their only units are their own)
>between the pikes and peltast to use as missiles.
>Grind the foot closer and try to push the enemy off
>the board, then send in impetouos subG rockets when
>opportunities arise. They are going to explode after
>they charge, so you want them to detonate somewhere
>240p in front of your main line (after charge, kill,
>pursue, get struck in flank, explode in place)
>boyd

So how does this relate to tactics actually used in the ancient world?

Looks like Warrior needs a rule requiring passing half a dozen Waver
tests before carrying out suicidal moves.
--

Doug
The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at
present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come
in it's turn, but it will be at a remote period." James Madison, 15
March 1798 (_Papers of J.M._ vol 12, p.14; LC call no. JK.111.M24)

Well Doug, in the ancient world, every body of men had
a subcommander. He was given his orders--eg stay in
line with so-and-so, or charge the archers when you
see the red banner, or follow Flavius up the hill in
10 minutes--which he would carry out. Of course for
me to simulate this in Warrior, I need maximum
subgenerals. I prefer to give them one one unit, as I
ALWAYS fail waver tests :)

I also actually think is more acurately portrays dark
age collective armies better. In feudal alegences,
there are numerous examples of subordinate barons
leading their men in a dashing charge without orders.

boyd

--- Doug <rockd@...> wrote:
> >Where I'd make a change from Ewan's commentary is
> that
> >I'd buy all the subG I could, but them on RgA 2E HC
> L
> >units and place them (their only units are their
> own)
> >between the pikes and peltast to use as missiles.
> >Grind the foot closer and try to push the enemy off
> >the board, then send in impetouos subG rockets when
> >opportunities arise. They are going to explode
> after
> >they charge, so you want them to detonate somewhere
> >240p in front of your main line (after charge,
> kill,
> >pursue, get struck in flank, explode in place)
> >boyd
>
> So how does this relate to tactics actually used in
> the ancient world?
>
> Looks like Warrior needs a rule requiring passing
> half a dozen Waver
> tests before carrying out suicidal moves.
> --
>
> Doug
> The price of freedom is infernal vigilantes
>
> "The tyranny of the legislatures is the most
> formidable dread at
> present, and will be for long years. That of the
> executive will come
> in it's turn, but it will be at a remote period."
> James Madison, 15
> March 1798 (_Papers of J.M._ vol 12, p.14; LC call
> no. JK.111.M24)
>


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