Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

I don't think I worded my question real well so I am going to retry here.

My unit does 45 damage and 38 damage to a unit of 48 pikement on consecutive
bounds. The pikemen take no damage either bound.

A unit of archers does 12 damage to my unit of 16 peltasts, but because they
are in column, they take one cpf?

I don't understand why one unit can take damage and only count the part of
the unit they hit with arrows when another unit is slammed pretty hard but
takes no damage at all.



Message: 25
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:14:30 -0400
From: JonCleaves@...
Subject: Re: A question

In a message dated 4/6/2004 10:54:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mufan16@... writes:

>I friend of mine has just started teaching me Warrior over the last 3 weeks
>or so. I really enjoy the game a lot for a variety of reasons. I hope
>nobody minds some newbie questions now and then, because a couple times a
>rule here and there has struck me as weird. (keep in mind I don't even know
>all the rules yet.)>>

Actually, SH, I'd rather be answering new player questions than any other
kind -
so fire away! :)

>
>Anyway, to get to my question, let me pose a couple scenarios. One unit of
>Legionaires is going up against a fat unit of pikemen...48-60 figs. The
>legos do 40-some and 30 some in consecutive bounds, no damage to the fat
>pike unit. In the second scenario a unti of heavy cav is firing on a unit
>in column and then charging. During the shooting phase, they are allowed
>damage on the unit even though they didn't do enough damage to do 1 per on
>a 16 figure unit. This was explained to me that because this unit is in
>column, only a couple rows of the column are counted when figuring the
>damage. I think it was three.
>
>What I don't understand is why the Lego's (which were disordered and tired
>I think) can do over 75 damage in successive bounds to a 48-60 figure unit
>and not get the same kind of handicap. They both are doing damage and
>dropping some people in the opposing unit, but only the shooters get this
>handicap? The pikemen had expanded out if that matters.>>

The answer is hard to give without seeing the exact formations of the units,
but
here's what I *think* you are asking:

When calculating casualties per figure, all of the figures in the first two
ranks count full and half of the figures beyond the first two ranks (rule
10.3).
There is no such thing as a 60-figure pike block as the max unit size is 12E
(rule 2.52, twelve element strength of pike = 48 figures). A 12 element
unit of
pike would have to be 6 elements across and two deep (only two ranks) for
every
figure to count for CPF. A six element wide unit is very easy to hit with
two
of your own, so this is generally not the formation you will find them in
(and
12E pike are rare as it is...). Another issue with pike is that, unlike
every
other hand-to-hand weapon type, pike figures can fight, under certain
circumstances, from the third and forth rank (rule 9.22). Two-rank-deep
pikemen
are not optimized for combat.

Let's say instead that the pike is 4E across and three ranks deep. The
first
two ranks would count full (8 elements x 4 figs/element = 32 figures) and
the
last rank would count half (4E x four figures/element x 1/2 = which is 40
figures for CPF purposes.

So, either he isn't counting for more than 40 figs for CPF or he is so wide
that
you can gang up him with two units.

Jon

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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/7/2004 12:24:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mufan16@... writes:

> My unit does 45 damage and 38 damage to a unit of 48 pikement on consecutive
> bounds. The pikemen take no damage either bound.
>
> A unit of archers does 12 damage to my unit of 16 peltasts, but because they
> are in column, they take one cpf?>>

True.

What this mechanic simulates is the amount of casualties the men in the unit
think they are taking across the frontage of the unit. In the second case, more
men are dying in and among the guys at the front of the unit - the ones whose
opinion matters when it comes to staying in the fight or leaving...

[Todd Schneider]

What formation was the Pike Unit in?

Where Each "X" is one element


x x x
x x x
x x x
x x x

If it's like the above, you count both front ranks,
and half of each back rank. There fore the above
would count as 36 for Casualty calculation

If It's like this:

x x x x
x x x x
x x x x

It would count as 40 for Casualty Calculation.

Another to remember, which is something I had a hard
time working around when I first started playing
Warrior, is the scale involved.

In a large mass of men, such as a Pike block, the rear
ranks will be unawares of whats going on up front
unless something disasterous (such as taking 3CPF)
happens. Likewise, a guy on the extreme left of the
unit will not know whats going on in the extreme right
of the unit, he's just reacting to whats happening
around him. It's a cascade effect, if the guy next to
you runs away or backs up, theres a reason why, so you
back up or run away, which causes the guy next to you
to do the same.

Some of the combat effects are abstracted, ecspecially
when you consider that each round of combat is 15
minutes...but the mechanics do work out in the end.
Basically, it's force and mass, and how it's applied
to a large body of men.

There are going to be better explanations for it,
hopefully mine won't cause any more problems.

--- S H <mufan16@...> wrote:
> I don't think I worded my question real well so I am
> going to retry here.
>
> My unit does 45 damage and 38 damage to a unit of 48
> pikement on consecutive
> bounds. The pikemen take no damage either bound.
>
> A unit of archers does 12 damage to my unit of 16
> peltasts, but because they
> are in column, they take one cpf?
>
> I don't understand why one unit can take damage and
> only count the part of
> the unit they hit with arrows when another unit is
> slammed pretty hard but
> takes no damage at all.
>
>
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:14:30 -0400
> From: JonCleaves@...
> Subject: Re: A question
>
> In a message dated 4/6/2004 10:54:33 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> mufan16@... writes:
>
> >I friend of mine has just started teaching me
> Warrior over the last 3 weeks
> >or so. I really enjoy the game a lot for a variety
> of reasons. I hope
> >nobody minds some newbie questions now and then,
> because a couple times a
> >rule here and there has struck me as weird. (keep
> in mind I don't even know
> >all the rules yet.)>>
>
> Actually, SH, I'd rather be answering new player
> questions than any other
> kind -
> so fire away!
>
> >
> >Anyway, to get to my question, let me pose a couple
> scenarios. One unit of
> >Legionaires is going up against a fat unit of
> pikemen...48-60 figs. The
> >legos do 40-some and 30 some in consecutive bounds,
> no damage to the fat
> >pike unit. In the second scenario a unti of heavy
> cav is firing on a unit
> >in column and then charging. During the shooting
> phase, they are allowed
> >damage on the unit even though they didn't do
> enough damage to do 1 per on
> >a 16 figure unit. This was explained to me that
> because this unit is in
> >column, only a couple rows of the column are
> counted when figuring the
> >damage. I think it was three.
> >
> >What I don't understand is why the Lego's (which
> were disordered and tired
> >I think) can do over 75 damage in successive bounds
> to a 48-60 figure unit
> >and not get the same kind of handicap. They both
> are doing damage and
> >dropping some people in the opposing unit, but only
> the shooters get this
> >handicap? The pikemen had expanded out if that
> matters.>>
>
> The answer is hard to give without seeing the exact
> formations of the units,
> but
> here's what I *think* you are asking:
>
> When calculating casualties per figure, all of the
> figures in the first two
> ranks count full and half of the figures beyond the
> first two ranks (rule
> 10.3).
> There is no such thing as a 60-figure pike block as
> the max unit size is 12E
> (rule 2.52, twelve element strength of pike = 48
> figures). A 12 element
> unit of
> pike would have to be 6 elements across and two deep
> (only two ranks) for
> every
> figure to count for CPF. A six element wide unit is
> very easy to hit with
> two
> of your own, so this is generally not the formation
> you will find them in
> (and
> 12E pike are rare as it is...). Another issue with
> pike is that, unlike
> every
> other hand-to-hand weapon type, pike figures can
> fight, under certain
> circumstances, from the third and forth rank (rule
> 9.22). Two-rank-deep
> pikemen
> are not optimized for combat.
>
> Let's say instead that the pike is 4E across and
> three ranks deep. The
> first
> two ranks would count full (8 elements x 4
> figs/element = 32 figures) and
> the
> last rank would count half (4E x four
> figures/element x 1/2 = which is 40
> figures for CPF purposes.
>
> So, either he isn't counting for more than 40 figs
> for CPF or he is so wide
> that
> you can gang up him with two units.
>
> Jon
>
>
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