Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

> Veterans of Warrior (from a old-newbie);
>
> I have an Early German army in 25mm, and want to put it together for
> Warrior. >>

I have it in 15mm - one of my favs.

<< 1. Would it make sense to field units of 4 stands each (representing
> around 1000 warriors), or should I go for larger units of say 6 or 8
> stands each?>>

Historically, 'units' in this army are arbitrary. 6 elements is what I use.

<<2. Can I base light infantry on the cavalry stands (as German light
> infantry accompanied the cav into melee)?>>

The LI are detachments of the cav, not mounted on the same stand. Great little
combination and one of the enjoyable features of the army.

<<3. Since I have the second generation of Foundry figures (28-30mm),
> it is exceedingly difficult to base these on 60 x 20mm bases. I
> would like to double base using 8 figures on 60 x 40mm or 60 x 50mm.
> Would that be acceptable?>>

2.512 permits this for exactly that reason.

<< 4. For tournament play should I construct my armies for 1200 points
> or 1600 points?>>

I have played it in both.

<< 5. There is an option to upgrade (up to 1/4) of the warriors to
> Irregular A as Chatti 'Iron Collar Wearers.' Would I position them
> in the front rank of each warband, or group them together?>>

I have always used them in the front rank.

<< Does anyone know what a Chatti Iron Collar Wearer would look like?>>

I had a picture around here somewhere...

<<> 6. Jon, will you be doing any Warrior tourneys at Tabletop soon?

Fast Warrior, Nov 10th at TTG. I'll repost the info when I get home.

Jon

[joncleaves]

Everyone please note that a couple of Dave's questions were rules questions, not
advice questions.

I would prefer that all rules questions were left to me (Scott if I am not
around). From my experience with other game lists, players answering rules
questions can be counter-productive.

Thanks
Jon
Rules ho

[joncleaves]

He loves 'em, Dave, he just sucks with them...

[Dave Smith]

Veterans of Warrior (from a old-newbie);

I have an Early German army in 25mm, and want to put it together for
Warrior. I would like to construct it as historical as evidence
provides. I've read Tacitus (but I don't recall him ever mentioning
the size of the warbands encountered. So here's my questions...

1. Would it make sense to field units of 4 stands each (representing
around 1000 warriors), or should I go for larger units of say 6 or 8
stands each?

2. Can I base light infantry on the cavalry stands (as German light
infantry accompanied the cav into melee)?

3. Since I have the second generation of Foundry figures (28-30mm),
it is exceedingly difficult to base these on 60 x 20mm bases. I
would like to double base using 8 figures on 60 x 40mm or 60 x 50mm.
Would that be acceptable?

4. For tournament play should I construct my armies for 1200 points
or 1600 points?

5. There is an option to upgrade (up to 1/4) of the warriors to
Irregular A as Chatti 'Iron Collar Wearers.' Would I position them
in the front rank of each warband, or group them together? Does
anyone know what a Chatti Iron Collar Wearer would look like?

6. Jon, will you be doing any Warrior tourneys at Tabletop soon?

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Dave

PS. Jake, I would like to pre-order a copy. I'll call you with the
financial info.

[scott holder]

1. Would it make sense to field units of 4 stands each (representing
around 1000 warriors), or should I go for larger units of say 6 or 8
stands each?

>4 stand units don't make sense unless they're Irr A "whack" guys and then a 4
stand unit is too big. For the warriors, you need some type of staying power
in a melee if for nothing else than to last long enough for that big up roll
so 8 is probably a good size. I'm curious as to how other barbarian trash
players do this.

2. Can I base light infantry on the cavalry stands (as German light
infantry accompanied the cav into melee)?

>There is nothing the rules to accomodate that and I doubt there will be a
list rule to cover it either. The LI is best represented as a detachment.

3. Since I have the second generation of Foundry figures (28-30mm),
it is exceedingly difficult to base these on 60 x 20mm bases. I
would like to double base using 8 figures on 60 x 40mm or 60 x 50mm.
Would that be acceptable?

>Only if you're prepared for the limitations that causes when moving crud
around on the table. On the other hand, most players are very accomodating of
this kind of thing knowing the friggin figures are *too* big:):)

4. For tournament play should I construct my armies for 1200 points
or 1600 points?

>Start with Fast Warrior, list to be available soon!

5. There is an option to upgrade (up to 1/4) of the warriors to
Irregular A as Chatti 'Iron Collar Wearers.' Would I position them
in the front rank of each warband, or group them together?

>I'm guessing you'd want little two element units of these guys running hither
and yon. The more you have of the Irr A guys, the more potential shock
chances you get in the game. They do the heavy lifting, if they fail, you
don't deserve to win:) If they do win, then the shmucky warriors come in
to clean up things.

>At least this is how most Irr foot armies are run albeit most everyone will
run a loose order army, Gauls or Spanish, or some Dark Age Trash list. I have
Galatians in 25mm and should remount them as Gauls.

Scott
List Ho

[Ewan McNay]

It's not quite clear whether you're looking for advice based on game-sense
(within the limits of history) or for pure historical facts that you
haven't unearthed. My guess is the latter, but in case it's the former,
some comments .

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, David Smith wrote:
> 1. Would it make sense to field units of 4 stands each (representing
> around 1000 warriors), or should I go for larger units of say 6 or 8
> stands each?

Units of 16 Irreg M/HI are too small, and cost too much in command points:
you'll have two few units to provide the coverage that an army of
iregulars needs. I like 6-stand units, as that allows for an approach in
column followed by a 1-inch-wheel-plus-expansion to get close to enemy,
often a problem for close foot; following this move up with a
contraction-plus-wheel also allows for fairly rapid sideways movement.

> 2. Can I base light infantry on the cavalry stands (as German light
> infantry accompanied the cav into melee)?

I don't know what the list will say, but I would strongly advise against
this: it reduces the cav's movement, prevents them from going long in
charges, and will cause them to take double CPF from h-t-h casualties.

> 3. Since I have the second generation of Foundry figures (28-30mm),
> it is exceedingly difficult to base these on 60 x 20mm bases. I
> would like to double base using 8 figures on 60 x 40mm or 60 x 50mm.
> Would that be acceptable?

Yes, but it will prevent ever moving to single-rank; for this army, that
risk/loss is negligible. Certainly no gaming issue.

> 4. For tournament play should I construct my armies for 1200 points
> or 1600 points?

Yes. At most large cons there will be one of each, on different days;
other tourneys may be either.

> 5. There is an option to upgrade (up to 1/4) of the warriors to
> Irregular A as Chatti 'Iron Collar Wearers.' Would I position them
> in the front rank of each warband, or group them together? Does
> anyone know what a Chatti Iron Collar Wearer would look like?

From a gameplay standpoint, front-ranking is greatly superior: it allows
for the warbands to never be uneasy, hence always able to charge
impetuously, and ensures that all Irreg A figures get to fight in the
front rank where they will all count.

Ewan

[Dave Smith]

"Holder, Scott wrote:

'unless they're Irr A "whack" guys'

'I'm curious as to how other barbarian trash players do this.'

'causes when moving crud around on the table.'

'then the shmucky warriors come in to clean up things.'

'or some Dark Age Trash list.'


***Uhmmm Scott, tell us how you really feel about those irregular
foot armies. :)

D

[Ewan McNay]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Holder, Scott <FHWA> wrote:
> >4 stand units don't make sense unless they're Irr A "whack" guys and then a 4
> stand unit is too big. For the warriors, you need some type of staying power
> in a melee if for nothing else than to last long enough for that big up roll
> so 8 is probably a good size. I'm curious as to how other barbarian trash
> players do this.
>
> >I'm guessing you'd want little two element units of these guys running hither
> and yon. The more you have of the Irr A guys, the more potential shock
> chances you get in the game. They do the heavy lifting, if they fail, you
> don't deserve to win:) If they do win, then the shmucky warriors come in
> to clean up things.
>
> >At least this is how most Irr foot armies are run albeit most everyone will
> run a loose order army, Gauls or Spanish, or some Dark Age Trash list. I have
> Galatians in 25mm and should remount them as Gauls.

Spanish are the current loose order gods, of course .

Scott's comments, though, are I think more reflective of a Viking mode -
where the elite types (huscarls and berzerks in that example) cannot be
combined with the masses. In cases where such partial upgrading is
possible - Gauls, Highlanders, Guti, whomever - I think that it works
better to put the fanatics as part of large units, giving them bulk to
absorb CPF (and ensuring that they get to fight and roll dice, same
objective as Scott mentions). Using little units of elites as the front
line, with a plan of following up with the masses, risks both (i) being
shot to pieces on the way in, and (ii) losing which will make the masses
take waver tests that they're likely to fail; I don't think it's a viable
tactic.

Chris Damour, being Chris, takes a lot of this stuff to l/u/d/i/c/r/o/u/s
the logical limit, playing 12-element Bondi units backed by a whole slew
of berserkz and huscarls who only fail wavers on a 1 and so are unlikely
to care when (not if) the Bondi evaporate.

Ewan, no kind of Ho but some-time gamesman..

[joncleaves]

Notice that he did not argue that he sucks with those armies... :)

[joncleaves]

Repartee - big word for you. Accurate enough though. :)

Actually Scott got into FHE/Warrior solely to supercede that stupid Spanish
list....

Jon
Editing Ho
Rule 6.165 Ho

[scott holder]

He loves 'em, Dave, he just sucks with them...

>I have two armies of that type, the aforementioned Galatians in 25mm and
Spanish in 15mm. I'm kinda hoping the Galatians play better in Fast Warrior
than they ever will in Warrior but who knows.

>The phrase "barbarian trash" is an endearing one used by us long-timers to
describe the type of army that consists primarily of 3pt foot with some 5pt
foot thrown in for good measure. "Dark Age trash" is another phrase to
describe a sub-set of the "barbarian trash" mindset. Chris Damour is a good
example of the former, Jake "Money Ho" Kovel an example of the latter. "Pike
trash" is another ubiquitious phrase used to describe Hellenistic pike armies.

>This post doesn't really *help* us with anything:):)

Scott
List Ho
Elephant Trash

[scott holder]

Notice that he did not argue that he sucks with those armies... :)

>Everybody's a critic:) I suck with Galatians because, well, Galatians
ain't exactly a balanced powerhouse army. The few times I trot it out,
everybody says "why don't you remount them as Gauls?" Lazy I guess. I guess
I could use the army as early Germs but never tried it that way probably
because I don't have enough LI painted.

>I can hold my own with Spanish thank you very much >phhhhhffffttttttt< and
I'm talking the "old" Spanish list mind you, not that attrocity "new" Spanish
list that every time I see it, it makes we want to work on Classical Warrior a
lot sooner than I'd planned.

>Wait a minute. I'd actually have to *play* a game to actually know if I suck
and *playing* games is something I seemed to have stopped doing. Sigh.

>For those of you who think otherwise, the above dialogue between me and the
Rules Ho is simply part of our everyday deft repartee:):)

Scott
List Ho
Battle Cart Ho

[Kelly Wilkinson]

--- JonCleaves@... wrote:
> Notice that he did not argue that he sucks with
> those armies...
>


LOL!

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[Kelly Wilkinson]

--- JonCleaves@... wrote:
> Notice that he did not argue that he sucks with
> those armies...
>

Last time I saw Scott play at Nashcon,I recall him
cleaning everyone's plow at Nashcon with Elephant
Trash!

Kelly


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I think bigeer is better with Irreg more resilent and fewer command points
spent but then again i play Romans :)

-----Original Message-----
From: David Smith [mailto:davidsmith@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:07 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Armies


Veterans of Warrior (from a old-newbie);

I have an Early German army in 25mm, and want to put it together for
Warrior. I would like to construct it as historical as evidence
provides. I've read Tacitus (but I don't recall him ever mentioning
the size of the warbands encountered. So here's my questions...

1. Would it make sense to field units of 4 stands each (representing
around 1000 warriors), or should I go for larger units of say 6 or 8
stands each?

2. Can I base light infantry on the cavalry stands (as German light
infantry accompanied the cav into melee)?

3. Since I have the second generation of Foundry figures (28-30mm),
it is exceedingly difficult to base these on 60 x 20mm bases. I
would like to double base using 8 figures on 60 x 40mm or 60 x 50mm.
Would that be acceptable?

4. For tournament play should I construct my armies for 1200 points
or 1600 points?

5. There is an option to upgrade (up to 1/4) of the warriors to
Irregular A as Chatti 'Iron Collar Wearers.' Would I position them
in the front rank of each warband, or group them together? Does
anyone know what a Chatti Iron Collar Wearer would look like?

6. Jon, will you be doing any Warrior tourneys at Tabletop soon?

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Dave

PS. Jake, I would like to pre-order a copy. I'll call you with the
financial info.



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