Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Ewan McNay]

spocksleftball@... wrote:
>
> Good followup and it will be assemilated. However, you can't charge foot and
mounted together IIRC, as the rules say so. :)

Yes, you can, provided that either (i) both are impetuous, or (ii) one
is elephants .

I assume by now that you've got the essential message of 'this army
sucks so play it for kicks'?

;)

E

Boyd,

Greg is correct as far as not running against cavalry with my team
idea. I meant this against certain foot types. The only cavalry I
would consider running against are HC or lower without lance or
wedging capability. Your Samurai mounted do wedge. Even fight vs.
Jls, shield cav. unless your cavalary has been upped to IRR A.
However, if you run the following(cavalry at 1 inch and Ashigaru at 3
before charge):
HHHHHH
HHHHHH
AAASSSSSS
AAASSSSSS
AAA
AAA

A being Ashigaru, S being mounted Samurai and H being enemy HC or
less. Result of combat on even rolls assuming all charge impetuously
is H=23 vs. S and 15 vs. A; S=25 vs. H & A=18 vs. H. H and S are now
now disordered and tired, A is not. Non-light mounted or loose
formation troops must break off (or recoil) if they took at least 1
CPF and inflicted less hand-to-hand casualties than their opponents.
So H will recoil rather than choose a 2:3 chance of being caught in a
break-off move. A follows up and expands. Subsequent bounds are lost
by H who will take 2 fatiques in bound 2 and will break in round 3.

But again, better than average players won't let this happen.

Or, you expect to lose the combat. First looks like this:

HHHHHH
HHHHHH

SSSSSS
AAA SSSSSS
AAA
AAA

First bound cavalry charge each other. Either a lock or a push back
of the H occurs. Non-light mounted or loose formation troops must
break off (or recoil) if they took at least 1 CPF and inflicted less
hand-to-hand casualties than their opponents.
Ashigaru approach & flank charge in second bound:

HHHHHH
HHHHHH
AAA SSSSSS
AAA SSSSSS
AAA

Although your mounted Samurai are not as good, they do provide a
nice "cookie" to tempt your opponent. Wedging makes Samurai mounted
better than Jls, Sh armed HC.

Okay, I read my draft of the rules and mantlets will convert your
Ashigaru to close order if you so desire. They will provide cover
against missle troops. They now become close order but can absorb
missle fire but receive combat as unshielded (unless 2HCT, which is
shielded in first round.

Chris




--- In WarriorRules@y..., "Greggory A. Regets" <gar@t...> wrote:

> I suppose I considered the question of large units, small frontage,
and up-armor, a bit obvious and did not respond in that area. My
apologies. Chris gave you some good suggestions, even though I am on
the opposite spectrum of thought with the cavalry issue. Chris
though, is a fine player and has used this army reasonably
effectively in the past. I on the other hand only have experience
beating on it.
>
> The thought of running them with the cavalry wouldn't be my first
choice. What cavalry do you see out there on a regular basis that you
can compete with on a regular basis? Running them together makes an
assumption that you are going to survive cavalry combat, something
that I see as problematic at best. You would also have to fear massed
cavalry combats, where leaving gaps in which to counter-attack, would
by rote leave your opponent gaps to attack through after one bound of
combat - the two element gap closing to one if a shoulder is engaged.
Chris is a very crafty player though and I would love to hear his
expanded thoughts on this, but I see this as a difficult tactic that
will not work against good players.
>
> What would I do? Thats an easy one. I would buy one large unit and
use it in aggressively placed terrain such as described above. Chris'
idea to use smaller units to find opportunities in a continuing melee
is a winner in my opinion, as you would have strong factors going in.
If your terrain is well placed and secure, you could even use this
terrain to set up potential flank shots against opponents attacking
past it.
>
> It is not a sin to play defensively, and this is an army I would
give some thought to that form of tactic. There is a HUGE difference
between making a fort and sitting in it (something we all detest),
and making a solid defense that is difficult for an enemy to spot
coming in (by crafty deployment and march), and comes together at the
last moment. The key would be expert and deceptive deployment, and
remembering that your opponent has orders too - ensure that he obeys
them. I'm sure that statement will be attacked roundly, but like
football strategy, there are many ways to win - the key not being
your method, but your execution of the method.
>
> Good luck ... Greg
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: spocksleftball
> To: WarriorRules@y...
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 8:23 AM
> Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Tactical Question
>
>
> While these answers have all been clever, I doubt I'll be using
any
> BUA with my army. Here is the question respecified:
>
> What size block of Ashigaru best provide a balance between
missile
> absorbtion, manuverability, and HTH endurance?
>
> I'm leaning towards massive units, but as we all know that keeps
them
> from actually attacking. If I keep them in a 2x? column, then
they
> can manuver but loose much of their ability to absorb damage.
>
> My fear is mounted archers and of course any charging mounted.
Yet,
> I want to use them. Any thoughts welcome.
>
> boyd
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good followup and it will be assemilated. However, you can't charge foot and
mounted together IIRC, as the rules say so.
the only Samurai list I have available is the old NASAMW rewrite. Is this the
same one? On this list the mounted can have Bw, but are also armed as 2hct.
IIRC you can't use 2 hand weapons on horseback. the Samurai can be close or
loose order and upgrade some to IrrA. Also upgrade to EHI is there, but to what
end unless playing defensively. upgrade of Ashigaru to LHI is only for late
period and it is 1/2, butYou can replace naginata with yari at -1. I don't see
IrrA option for them.
List HO question: Will No-dachi units be available in the new list. They were
considered shock troops with larger twohanded swords and very aggressive...sort
of IrrA ish. Also how about yari armed HC in the late period? They would be HC
L/B or LB.

thanks again for the great thread.
boyd




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[joncleaves]

In a message dated Fri, 9 Aug 2002 2:46:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ewan.mcnay@... writes:

> I assume by now that you've got the essential message of
> 'this army
> sucks so play it for kicks'?

Jury is out on that, remember.

[Greg Regets]

You can if the foot is impetuous ...

G
----- Original Message -----
From: spocksleftball@...
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Ashigaru Continued.....



Good followup and it will be assemilated. However, you can't charge foot and
mounted together IIRC, as the rules say so.
the only Samurai list I have available is the old NASAMW rewrite. Is this the
same one? On this list the mounted can have Bw, but are also armed as 2hct.
IIRC you can't use 2 hand weapons on horseback. the Samurai can be close or
loose order and upgrade some to IrrA. Also upgrade to EHI is there, but to what
end unless playing defensively. upgrade of Ashigaru to LHI is only for late
period and it is 1/2, butYou can replace naginata with yari at -1. I don't see
IrrA option for them.
List HO question: Will No-dachi units be available in the new list. They
were considered shock troops with larger twohanded swords and very
aggressive...sort of IrrA ish. Also how about yari armed HC in the late period?
They would be HC L/B or LB.

thanks again for the great thread.
boyd




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[Greg Regets]

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology for my thoughts. I think I'm saying
defensively, when I really mean counter-attacking. Todd seems to frame my
thoughts better than I did in his ideas about counter-attacking. I will work on
my terminology in future posts.

Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Greggory A. Regets
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Ashigaru Continued.....


You can if the foot is impetuous ...

G
----- Original Message -----
From: spocksleftball@...
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Ashigaru Continued.....



Good followup and it will be assemilated. However, you can't charge foot
and mounted together IIRC, as the rules say so.
the only Samurai list I have available is the old NASAMW rewrite. Is this
the same one? On this list the mounted can have Bw, but are also armed as 2hct.
IIRC you can't use 2 hand weapons on horseback. the Samurai can be close or
loose order and upgrade some to IrrA. Also upgrade to EHI is there, but to what
end unless playing defensively. upgrade of Ashigaru to LHI is only for late
period and it is 1/2, butYou can replace naginata with yari at -1. I don't see
IrrA option for them.
List HO question: Will No-dachi units be available in the new list. They
were considered shock troops with larger twohanded swords and very
aggressive...sort of IrrA ish. Also how about yari armed HC in the late period?
They would be HC L/B or LB.

thanks again for the great thread.
boyd




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