Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

This is my first attempt at drawing up a list, and I have a few
questions before I invest in lead and sit down to paint. I get the
impression that Aztecs may not be the best learner's army, but I'm
fascinated by them, so here goes...

First, a couple questions:

(Please bear with me: I don't have the rules as yet and am running on
info gleaned from the quick reference sheets in the files and vague
recollections of my limited WRG 7th experience from DECADES ago.)

According to the NWW list, 3E+ Novices may be brigaded with 1E
Otontin and 3E+ Warriors may be brigaded with 1E Eagle/Jaguar Knight.
Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?

More generally, do single list tourneys prohibit changes to armaments
if such changes do not affect point values and/or organization? Most
particularly, if I arm an element with LTS in lieu of 1HCW, is that
decision set in stone or can I switch back to 1HCW during the tourney?

Also, is it worth it to place 1E "A class" in "B" and "C class"
units? If I'm reading 5.13 correctly, I'm assuming immunity to
uneasiness to be worth it, especially with an all LMI army.

Now to the list:

179 = C-in-C - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
218 = Sub-G x2 - 2E RegA LMI, 1HCW, D, Sh

(These are pretty firmly set, though I may trade some 1HCW for LTS.)

316 = Knights x2 - 1E RegA & 5E RegB LMI LTS, D, Sh

(I was tempted to go with 3x 4E RegB for 2 pts more, but I think the
single RegA in the front rank will make up for the loss off
maneuverability.)

414 = Warriors x3 - 1E RegA & 5E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(I envision the LTS armed RegB Knights as being the primary
cavalry/knight fighters while the 1HCW armed Warriors would be for
clearing woods and the like, ideally that is; should I arm some/all
these guys with LTS as well?)

118 = Novices x1 - 1E RegA & 5E RegD LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Only need to take 4E Novices, but a 5E unit seems too awkward; opted
against LTS due to "D class" waver tests.)

183 = Cuachicqueh x3 - 2E IrregA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Should I arm these with 2HCW? Depending on how I organize the
Peasants, I may have the points for 2E 2HCT.)

176 = Peasants x8 - 2E RegD LI S, Sh

OR

170 = Peasants x5 - 4E RegD LI S, Sh

(Undecided how to handle this; I'm leaning towards the 4E units - 20E
total vs. 16E for smaller units - and 2E Cuachicqueh 2HCT.)

1604 = 17 (2E Peasants) or 14 (4E Peasants) plus 3 bodies with
generals; 8 or 10 scouting points.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Todd Kaeser]

A few thoughts from a long time Aztec player.

Personally, I feel you only need 1 sub - regulars need less prompting and you're
a shooting army - you're bound to disrupt someone to get a free charge here and
there.

I do not run 6 element units - I like the feel of 4 element units. They flow
throughout the battle more freely and I can get overlap shooting easier. I also
experience less traffic jams with smaller units - the death of an Aztec player
is traffic jams since you'll be countering and evading so often. Once you're
stuck - you're doomed. So I do have a full 'D' unit w/ no A element.

Morale upgrades are very important - run as high a morale as possible - upgrade
an element of your knights to 'A' so they'll never be uneasy.

I run the warriors in full 'B' or 'C' units. Upgrade full units when possible.

Run the cuachequah (sp?) and the priests w/ 2HCT - same impact as 2HCW and a -1
for a little point upgrade.

I like the peasant LI w/ Jls, but sling is also a solid weapon.

The decision for 1HCW or LTS is a personal one. I haven't even figured this one
out yet - despite running Aztecs for the past 15 years or so I've only played in
1 tournament with the NWW lists.

Hope that helps,

Todd K

yapisu2003 <yapisu2003@...> wrote:

This is my first attempt at drawing up a list, and I have a few
questions before I invest in lead and sit down to paint. I get the
impression that Aztecs may not be the best learner's army, but I'm
fascinated by them, so here goes...

First, a couple questions:

(Please bear with me: I don't have the rules as yet and am running on
info gleaned from the quick reference sheets in the files and vague
recollections of my limited WRG 7th experience from DECADES ago.)

According to the NWW list, 3E+ Novices may be brigaded with 1E
Otontin and 3E+ Warriors may be brigaded with 1E Eagle/Jaguar Knight.
Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?

More generally, do single list tourneys prohibit changes to armaments
if such changes do not affect point values and/or organization? Most
particularly, if I arm an element with LTS in lieu of 1HCW, is that
decision set in stone or can I switch back to 1HCW during the tourney?

Also, is it worth it to place 1E "A class" in "B" and "C class"
units? If I'm reading 5.13 correctly, I'm assuming immunity to
uneasiness to be worth it, especially with an all LMI army.

Now to the list:

179 = C-in-C - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
218 = Sub-G x2 - 2E RegA LMI, 1HCW, D, Sh

(These are pretty firmly set, though I may trade some 1HCW for LTS.)

316 = Knights x2 - 1E RegA & 5E RegB LMI LTS, D, Sh

(I was tempted to go with 3x 4E RegB for 2 pts more, but I think the
single RegA in the front rank will make up for the loss off
maneuverability.)

414 = Warriors x3 - 1E RegA & 5E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(I envision the LTS armed RegB Knights as being the primary
cavalry/knight fighters while the 1HCW armed Warriors would be for
clearing woods and the like, ideally that is; should I arm some/all
these guys with LTS as well?)

118 = Novices x1 - 1E RegA & 5E RegD LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Only need to take 4E Novices, but a 5E unit seems too awkward; opted
against LTS due to "D class" waver tests.)

183 = Cuachicqueh x3 - 2E IrregA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Should I arm these with 2HCW? Depending on how I organize the
Peasants, I may have the points for 2E 2HCT.)

176 = Peasants x8 - 2E RegD LI S, Sh

OR

170 = Peasants x5 - 4E RegD LI S, Sh

(Undecided how to handle this; I'm leaning towards the 4E units - 20E
total vs. 16E for smaller units - and 2E Cuachicqueh 2HCT.)

1604 = 17 (2E Peasants) or 14 (4E Peasants) plus 3 bodies with
generals; 8 or 10 scouting points.

Thanks in advance for any advice.




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[joncleaves]

This is in answer to both the email with the above subject line from yapisu and
also to you, Michael Geld - I am replying to both mails on the group as they are
related and by doing things this way, the whole group benefits (or is misled!
lol) by the answer...

First, I have not played straight Aztecs - only the Tlax version with Cortez as
the CINC.


<<According to the NWW list, 3E+ Novices may be brigaded with 1E
Otontin and 3E+ Warriors may be brigaded with 1E Eagle/Jaguar Knight.
Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?>>

Yes. Otontin lead the novices.

<<More generally, do single list tourneys prohibit changes to armaments
if such changes do not affect point values and/or organization?>>

I am not aware of any tourney that allows armament changes - the list or lists
written are locked in at the start of the event. Not to say that someone
doesn't allow that somewhere.

<< Also, is it worth it to place 1E "A class" in "B" and "C class"
units? If I'm reading 5.13 correctly, I'm assuming immunity to
uneasiness to be worth it, especially with an all LMI army.>>

I do it all the time. Never uneasy is very powerful and often cheap when you
can get it.


<<414 = Warriors x3 - 1E RegA & 5E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(I envision the LTS armed RegB Knights as being the primary
cavalry/knight fighters while the 1HCW armed Warriors would be for
clearing woods and the like, ideally that is; should I arm some/all
these guys with LTS as well?)>>

I think you should always have 1-2 woods clearing units in your army.

As far as tactics go, as I said, I have only played Tlaxcallans. I put my
Spanish in the open terrain and my indians in the brush or on the hills
depending on the opponent. This combo allows an 'aztec' player to fight in more
open terrain than when an all-indian army is taken. The aztec armies I have
faced have had to deal with me taking four open spaces (or three+road or
three+hill) and have tended to stay in their side of the table on wait orders
and looked for opportunities against my attack rather than be aggressive.

I guess my first piece of advice to an all-aztec player would be to run through
several drills of taking terrain choices with a sparring partner who is taking
four open spaces and see the various table layouts that result. From there, you
can build your plan. I am not saying you can only fight in brush, but I will
send an SHK unit into RegC/D LMI in the open almost without thinking about it,
unless thay have both B/D and LTS. If there are 3-4 such units in the open, I
*will* charge them all as one will fail for sure and I will not lose the other
fights badly enough to prevent me from exploiting the (minimum of) one shaken
unit.

You also will need to practice using your peasant slingers to soften approaching
enemy before they charge and also to ensure that after any recalls/counters they
are in a position to provide support shooting to LMI that gets charged.

Jon

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Kaeser <hailkaeser@y...>
wrote:
> A few thoughts from a long time Aztec player

Thanks for the input.

> Personally, I feel you only need 1 sub - regulars need less
prompting and you're a shooting army - you're bound to disrupt
someone to get a free charge here and there.

Will give that some thought.

>I do not run 6 element units - I like the feel of 4 element units.

That was my original intent, but I wanted an "A" element in as many
units as possible. Will tinker a bit and see what I get.

>upgrade an element of your knights to 'A' so they'll never be uneasy.

In my original draft, I took 15 Knights and upgraded the maximum 1/3
to disperse among both "B" Knights and "C" Warriors.

>I run the warriors in full 'B' or 'C' units. Upgrade full units
>when possible.

Do you include an "A" element with Warriors?

If I drop the second Sub-G and stress 4E units, the list looks like
this:

179 = C-in-C - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
109 = Sub-G x1 - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
440 = Knights x4 - 1E RegA/3E RegB LMI LTS or 1HCW, D, Sh
220 = Veterans x2 - 1E RegA/3E RegB LMI LTS or 1HCW, D, Sh
180 = Warriors x2 - 4E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
74 = Novices x1 - 4E RegD LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
134 = Cuachicqueh x2 - 2E IrregA LMI 2HCT, D, Sh
64 = Cuachicqueh x1 - as above but 1E 2HCT/1E 1HCW
204 = Peasants x6 - 4E RegD LI S or JLS, Sh

18 units + 2 bodies w/ General
12 scouting points

If I remove 2HCT from the 2nd rank of the other Cuachicqueh, I can
give both Generals' elements 2HCT.

[Ewan McNay]

Miles wrote:

>
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Kaeser <hailkaeser@y...>
> wrote:
>
>>A few thoughts from a long time Aztec player
>
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
>
>>Personally, I feel you only need 1 sub - regulars need less
>
> prompting and you're a shooting army - you're bound to disrupt
> someone to get a free charge here and there.
>
> Will give that some thought.

Agree with Todd; but then I run generals at extremes (either 1-2 with
regular foot armies, or as many as I can get with SHK). You need almost
no prompting with the average Axtec - a lot of counters with the
*occasional* retirement, and only charging if IrrA or against disordered
opppo.

>>I do not run 6 element units - I like the feel of 4 element units.
>
> That was my original intent, but I wanted an "A" element in as many
> units as possible. Will tinker a bit and see what I get.

You probably want a mix. 6E units are significantly harder for oppposing
shock mounted to rout on contact, and have good expansion options in
manouvre (goood for missile-only troops, for instance). 4E units are more
flexible, cheaper hence more numerous, and (as Todd noted) less taxing to
combine.

You'll want, in general, to have low morale guys in terrain, high morale
guys in open if facing shock mounted. You'll also do a *lot* of counters.
It's a very good matchup - lots of scope for good play on both sides.
You also want to practice having the (small number of) 2E hard-hitting
units in the right place to come into the flank of that shock mounted when
it does not win on contact. Shooting will in general prevent such unless
>1 mounted unit is going against 1 foot of yours, in which case you
should greatly outnumber elsewhere (and have friends to provide additional
shootiing at the point of contact).

>>I run the warriors in full 'B' or 'C' units. Upgrade full units
>>when possible.

To expand: single elements of A class is good. Mixing B/C is essentially
pointless for regulars; you want all-B to have maxed countering ability,
morale status, etc. (in the open).

> 204 = Peasants x6 - 4E RegD LI S or JLS, Sh

Incidentally, think about howw you plan to use these guys. That's a lot
of LI for an Axtec. not necessarily wrong, just worth considering whet
they give you that (say) a 2E unit of LMI does not. [There are several
things, but there are also a lot of things that the LMI can do that LI
cannot).

I just acquired some 20-25mm Aztecs, and at some point (!) they may expand
to acquire Spanish. I played these guys for maybe 3 years straight in
15mm back under 7th. Fun and challenging.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:

First off, thanks for the quick reply.

><<Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?>>
>
>Yes. Otontin lead the novices.
>
>I am not aware of any tourney that allows armament changes - the
>list or lists written are locked in at the start of the event.

That's what I figured on both counts; thanks for clarifying.

>Never uneasy is very powerful and often cheap when you can get it.

I was pretty much set on adding an "A" element to as many units as
possible. The only question was whether or not I could do so with all
non-LI. To do so I have to work with 6E units; to take more nimble 4E
units, some would have to lack an "A" element.

>I think you should always have 1-2 woods clearing units in your army.

Agreed. Just not sure what mix of 1HCW/LTS to go with; will just have
to keep tinkering.

>This combo (Tlaxcallans) allows an 'aztec' player to fight in more
>open terrain than when an all-indian army is taken.

Contemplated Tlaxcallans, but all those "A class" Aztecs are just too
tempting. Cortez and Company may be my second endeavor to give my
Aztecs a suitable opponent.

>The aztec armies I have faced have had to deal with me taking four
>open spaces (or three+road or three+hill) and have tended to stay in
>their side of the table on wait orders and looked for opportunities
>against my attack rather than be aggressive.

I figured I'd be largely held hostage to terrain. I play Dwarves in
Warmaster, so I'm used to it. Apparently I have something against
cavalry.

>I am not saying you can only fight in brush, but I will send an SHK
>unit into RegC/D LMI in the open almost without thinking about it.

I'm going to try to max out "B class" LTS to minimize just such
weaknesses. My first revision fields six 4E RegB and leaving woods
clearance to two RegC and one RegD units with 1HCW.

>You also will need to practice using your peasant slingers to soften
>approaching enemy before they charge and also to ensure that after
>any recalls/counters they are in a position to provide support
>shooting to LMI that gets charged.

The prevalence of slingers almost tempted me to go with the Inca list
instead, but Aztecs have to strong an appeal. I'm sure to take my
lumps until I figure out how to handle LI.

Thanks again.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan McNay <ewan.mcnay@y...>
wrote:
>
>Agree with Todd; but then I run generals at extremes (either 1-2
>with regular foot armies, or as many as I can get with SHK). You
>need almost no prompting with the average Axtec - a lot of counters
>with the *occasional* retirement, and only charging if IrrA or
>against disordered opppo.

Seems the consensus is to drop one of the Sub-G.

>>>I do not run 6 element units - I like the feel of 4 element
>>>units.
>
>You probably want a mix

I'll probably keep the "B" units at 4E and make the "C" units 6E.

>You'll want, in general, to have low morale guys in terrain, high
>morale guys in open if facing shock mounted.

The idea is to give the "B" units LTS to fight in the open and try to
keep the 1HCW armed "C" and "D" units for holding/clearing terrain.

>You'll also do a *lot* of counters. It's a very good matchup - lots
>of scope for good play on both sides.

"Good play" from assumes a lot more experience than I have at the
moment, but I'm eager to get started.

>You also want to practice having the (small number of) 2E hard-
>hitting units in the right place to come into the flank of that
>shock mounted when it does not win on contact.

The IrregA will definitely have 2HCT and probably the generals'
bodies as well. Practice is definitely the word.

>To expand: single elements of A class is good. Mixing B/C is
>essentially pointless for regulars; you want all-B to have maxed
>countering ability, morale status, etc. (in the open).

I don't think I included any B/C units; all units were one morale
class plus an "A" element.

>>204 = Peasants x6 - 4E RegD LI S or JLS, Sh
>
>Incidentally, think about howw you plan to use these guys. That's
>a lot of LI for an Axtec. not necessarily wrong, just worth
>considering whet they give you that (say) a 2E unit of LMI does
>not. [There are several things, but there are also a lot of things
>that the LMI can do that LI cannot).

I am definitely least familiar with how to utilize lights. One draw
of LI for the Aztecs is the S, Sh armament. I will definitely have to
play with this quite a bit before I know exactly how I want to handle
this.

>I just acquired some 20-25mm Aztecs, and at some point (!) they may
>expand to acquire Spanish. I played these guys for maybe 3 years
>straight in 15mm back under 7th. Fun and challenging.

Until I figure them out properly, I'll probably get my head handed to
me by knight heavy armies, but it does look like a fun list.

Thanks a bunch.

[Tim Grimmett]

I don't know the list and perhaps there is a list requirement I'm not aware of,
but I'm mildly suprised at the lack of comments regarding whether the CINC and
S-G should be fighting generals.

By keeping them as staff elements the general can rally routers by either
joining the unit or positioning so as to have them pass by and revert to shaken,
without the risk of rolling the "1".

The general is then also free to join any unit thus putting his "A"s in the
front rank for unease purposes.

TG

yapisu2003 <yapisu2003@...> wrote:

This is my first attempt at drawing up a list, and I have a few
questions before I invest in lead and sit down to paint. I get the
impression that Aztecs may not be the best learner's army, but I'm
fascinated by them, so here goes...

First, a couple questions:

(Please bear with me: I don't have the rules as yet and am running on
info gleaned from the quick reference sheets in the files and vague
recollections of my limited WRG 7th experience from DECADES ago.)

According to the NWW list, 3E+ Novices may be brigaded with 1E
Otontin and 3E+ Warriors may be brigaded with 1E Eagle/Jaguar Knight.
Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?

More generally, do single list tourneys prohibit changes to armaments
if such changes do not affect point values and/or organization? Most
particularly, if I arm an element with LTS in lieu of 1HCW, is that
decision set in stone or can I switch back to 1HCW during the tourney?

Also, is it worth it to place 1E "A class" in "B" and "C class"
units? If I'm reading 5.13 correctly, I'm assuming immunity to
uneasiness to be worth it, especially with an all LMI army.

Now to the list:

179 = C-in-C - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
218 = Sub-G x2 - 2E RegA LMI, 1HCW, D, Sh

(These are pretty firmly set, though I may trade some 1HCW for LTS.)

316 = Knights x2 - 1E RegA & 5E RegB LMI LTS, D, Sh

(I was tempted to go with 3x 4E RegB for 2 pts more, but I think the
single RegA in the front rank will make up for the loss off
maneuverability.)

414 = Warriors x3 - 1E RegA & 5E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(I envision the LTS armed RegB Knights as being the primary
cavalry/knight fighters while the 1HCW armed Warriors would be for
clearing woods and the like, ideally that is; should I arm some/all
these guys with LTS as well?)

118 = Novices x1 - 1E RegA & 5E RegD LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Only need to take 4E Novices, but a 5E unit seems too awkward; opted
against LTS due to "D class" waver tests.)

183 = Cuachicqueh x3 - 2E IrregA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Should I arm these with 2HCW? Depending on how I organize the
Peasants, I may have the points for 2E 2HCT.)

176 = Peasants x8 - 2E RegD LI S, Sh

OR

170 = Peasants x5 - 4E RegD LI S, Sh

(Undecided how to handle this; I'm leaning towards the 4E units - 20E
total vs. 16E for smaller units - and 2E Cuachicqueh 2HCT.)

1604 = 17 (2E Peasants) or 14 (4E Peasants) plus 3 bodies with
generals; 8 or 10 scouting points.

Thanks in advance for any advice.




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[Todd Kaeser]

With lack of coverage at times I have to fill gaps w/ my generals or even have
them lead flank assaults.

Todd K

Tim Grimmett <grimmetttim@...> wrote:
I don't know the list and perhaps there is a list requirement I'm not aware of,
but I'm mildly suprised at the lack of comments regarding whether the CINC and
S-G should be fighting generals.

By keeping them as staff elements the general can rally routers by either
joining the unit or positioning so as to have them pass by and revert to shaken,
without the risk of rolling the "1".

The general is then also free to join any unit thus putting his "A"s in the
front rank for unease purposes.

TG

yapisu2003 <yapisu2003@...> wrote:

This is my first attempt at drawing up a list, and I have a few
questions before I invest in lead and sit down to paint. I get the
impression that Aztecs may not be the best learner's army, but I'm
fascinated by them, so here goes...

First, a couple questions:

(Please bear with me: I don't have the rules as yet and am running on
info gleaned from the quick reference sheets in the files and vague
recollections of my limited WRG 7th experience from DECADES ago.)

According to the NWW list, 3E+ Novices may be brigaded with 1E
Otontin and 3E+ Warriors may be brigaded with 1E Eagle/Jaguar Knight.
Does that preclude brigading Warriors with Otontin?

More generally, do single list tourneys prohibit changes to armaments
if such changes do not affect point values and/or organization? Most
particularly, if I arm an element with LTS in lieu of 1HCW, is that
decision set in stone or can I switch back to 1HCW during the tourney?

Also, is it worth it to place 1E "A class" in "B" and "C class"
units? If I'm reading 5.13 correctly, I'm assuming immunity to
uneasiness to be worth it, especially with an all LMI army.

Now to the list:

179 = C-in-C - 2E RegA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh
218 = Sub-G x2 - 2E RegA LMI, 1HCW, D, Sh

(These are pretty firmly set, though I may trade some 1HCW for LTS.)

316 = Knights x2 - 1E RegA & 5E RegB LMI LTS, D, Sh

(I was tempted to go with 3x 4E RegB for 2 pts more, but I think the
single RegA in the front rank will make up for the loss off
maneuverability.)

414 = Warriors x3 - 1E RegA & 5E RegC LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(I envision the LTS armed RegB Knights as being the primary
cavalry/knight fighters while the 1HCW armed Warriors would be for
clearing woods and the like, ideally that is; should I arm some/all
these guys with LTS as well?)

118 = Novices x1 - 1E RegA & 5E RegD LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Only need to take 4E Novices, but a 5E unit seems too awkward; opted
against LTS due to "D class" waver tests.)

183 = Cuachicqueh x3 - 2E IrregA LMI 1HCW, D, Sh

(Should I arm these with 2HCW? Depending on how I organize the
Peasants, I may have the points for 2E 2HCT.)

176 = Peasants x8 - 2E RegD LI S, Sh

OR

170 = Peasants x5 - 4E RegD LI S, Sh

(Undecided how to handle this; I'm leaning towards the 4E units - 20E
total vs. 16E for smaller units - and 2E Cuachicqueh 2HCT.)

1604 = 17 (2E Peasants) or 14 (4E Peasants) plus 3 bodies with
generals; 8 or 10 scouting points.

Thanks in advance for any advice.




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