Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago, but
I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
pointers?.

Kingo

I picked Swiss thinking that as a beginner, they would be a good
army - since they have high quality/morale, regular troops. I figured
the army would be easier to control and would pass more waver tests.
I haven't put it on the tabletop yet, so I don't know how it will
work out, but the comments I get from the experts here make me think
that I might have picked an army that actually requires more finesse
to use. I'm about 2/3rd of the waying through with painting it, so
I'm committed to it, but we'll see how it works out.

I'm afraid that maybe the more limited troop types the Swiss have
will be a liability for me.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Alex King" <tors1@o...> wrote:
> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
> success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
> under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago,
but
> I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
> pointers?.
>
> Kingo

[Mike Bard]

I can offer some 'easy to use' armies:

1. Gallic (from the old WRG books still)

For 1600pts:

3E CinC two-horse LCh, Irreg B, one w/JLS for 132 pts
3E two-horse LCh, Irreg B, one w/JLS for 73 pts
3E Noble Cav MC, Irreg B, JLS, Sh for 88 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
4E Javelinmen, LI, Irreg C, JLS, Sh for 55 pts
4E Slingers, LI, Irreg C, S, Sh for 55 pts

Total: 1594pts

Essentially everything but the Gestati hide in a corner somewhere (slingers
in front of the chariots behind lots of terrain). LMI Gestati deploy in
woods, MI Gestati deploy in open. LI JLS in front to prevent some charges.
Push the start button, watch it go. Pretty well nobody cares if anybody
routs, is destroyed, or anything. How successful? Depends on how often you
roll up.

2. Libyan -- Early Period (Biblical Warrior, List 5) -- aka 'The Amorphous
Blob"

For 1600 pts:

1E CinC LMI, Irreg B, JLS for 109 pts
1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
9E Foot Bodyguard LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 133 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
6E Archers LI Irreg C B for 49 pts
5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts
5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts
5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts

Total: 1599 pts (3 E short of list maximums)

Line the table with rows of LI (1 deep yields 4 bodies needed for 8' table
yielding 3 lines, plus the Archers somewhere (flanks of front line?) for a
total of 4 lines. The body guard forms one long line along the rear, the
generals are behind them. Advance. Anything that charges a LI body causes
the LI to evade through lines further back. If a second line body is
caught, then it causes fatigue to the chargers, and then routs. Everything
(almost) is LI so nobody cares. The LMI causes the LI to auto-rally when
they pass through, and the general/sub-generals exist to catch any leakers.
As an enemy body becomes tired/disordered, other LI charge them in the
flanks. The entire army slowly moves forward, absorbing any charges like a
blob, and then reforming and continuing to advance... Really frustrating
for knight armies, but probably not the most fun to play...

Probably there are others.

Michael Bard

> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with.

[Mark Stone]

--- On July 29 Alex King said: ---

> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
> success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
> under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago, but
> I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
> pointers?.
>
> Kingo

Alex,

This is a GREAT question. Really glad you asked it. I'll have to ponder it some
to come up with several suggestions, but I'll start with just one for now.

First, some background. You want an army that is playable, not too hard to play,
but that you can learn from. Therefore it should have a mix of troop types: some
skirmishers, some cav, some shock foot. It's probably OK if it's mostly
irregular. Irregular armies tend to fight straight ahead, while regulars often
succeed with the nuances of more complex maneuvers. You probably also want an
army that is comfortable in a mix of terrain. This is helpful because it means
you can learn more by experiementing with different kinds of terrain, but also
because it means you can use terrain to protect you against disadvantageous
matchups.

So, some cav, some skirmishers, some shock foot, mostly irregular, good in
either open or rough terrain.... Sounds like Russ (Dark Age Warrior #30) to me.
Here's my take on 1600 points:

CinC w/2 stands of Druzhina, Irr B HI 2HCW,Sh/JLS,Sh (182 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Irr C MI LTS,JLS,Sh (242 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B (110 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands of Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (110 points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (97 points)
2 units of 6 stands Varangians Irr B LHI JLS,Sh/Irr C LMI JLS,Sh (212 points)
1 unit of 2 stands of Varangian Berserkers Irr A LMI 2HCW,Sh/2HCW (52 points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Archers Irr B LMI JLS,B,Sh (85 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (130 points)
2 units Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (170 points)
2 units Bulgar Horse Archers Irr C/D LC JLS,B,Sh (206 points)

You have a very decent skirmish line of 2 units of shielded LI and 2 units of
LC, probably with the Varangian archer unit thrown in to stiffen the mix a bit.
Those five units will take down a lot of enemy light troops once you learn how,
and in the mean time do a very decent job of enabling even a beginner to hold
one flank in the open.

In the middle you've got the two Russ spear blocks, with your CinC lurking in
reserve between and behind them. There isn't a whole lot these guys are afraid
of. If you are facing something they're afraid of ("Moogs", perhaps) then roll
up a hill for a terrain pick and park them on it.

On the other flank you want brush, woods, or some such, as a place for the
Varangians to live. This is your main attack force in most situations, looking
to disrupt the enemy with initial charges so that the rest of your army can
exploit the disruptions in follow up.

The HC lancers are the reserve. They may stiffen your skirmish line if an
opponent tries to be aggressive there, or exploit disordered infantry created
by your Varangians.

The hardest part of playing this army is learning to properly protect the outer
flanks of the two Russ spear blocks, especially the "open" flank where the
light troops are operating. That's just a matter of practice, learning how far
out in front the skirmishers need to be, when an HC unit can slide into a flank
supporting role, knowing how to keep all the foot advancing at a consistent
pace so that you don't unecessarily expose yourself, etc.

Overall it's a fun army that you can learn a lot from playing, while not being a
very complicated army. It's also high enough morale overall and resilient enough
overall to be a forgiving army. You can recover from small mistakes, and even in
a losing cause you're going to do some real damage; your opponent will know he's
been in a fight.

Anyway, that's one recommendation; I'll try to think of others.


-Mark Stone

[Todd Schneider]

In somewhat of an opposite vein, I think and Army like Late Imperial Romans
would be ideal for newer players to learn on.



The list minimums required, and the support choices available, ensure that
almost every 1600 point list built will involve All classes of Open, Loose,
and Close order foot and mounted (and possibly artillery and camelry);
giving the player plenty of opportunities to learn how and why a Close Order
Foot unit is supported and used with a Loose Order Mounted Unit.



Also, as many of the units are “D” class, it’ll force newer players to pay
attention to those things I think may of them forget when first playing:

Causes of Unease

Support, and why that Unit of LI “Isn’t” protecting your flank.

Terrain and its impact on your various troops.



I would also suggest that starting out with games of Fast Warrior and 1200
point games would be better than trying to dive into 1600 point games right
away…



The one thing that has helped me most was tracking why I took waver tests
during the battles I Fought, and keeping an AAR book, in which I draw out a
sketch map of the battlefield and setup, track my waver checks and who took
the fiorst few, and my observations before and after the battle.



It also helps that Jon’s a very good teacher in that once he’s beaten you,
he’ll sit down afterwards and with the patience of Job explain how and why
he was able to do what he did. Theres a reason I don’t force march LC
anymore….



My record against him isn’t stellar (something like 2-365-1), but I will
take just a little credit in his finishing second, he got enough practice
games from me to hone his list! :-)



Todd



_____

From: Mark Stone [mailto:mark@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:34 PM
To: warrior
Subject: [WarriorRules] re: Beginners army



--- On July 29 Alex King said: ---

> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
> success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
> under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago, but
> I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
> pointers?.
>
> Kingo

Alex,

This is a GREAT question. Really glad you asked it. I'll have to ponder it
some
to come up with several suggestions, but I'll start with just one for now.

First, some background. You want an army that is playable, not too hard to
play,
but that you can learn from. Therefore it should have a mix of troop types:
some
skirmishers, some cav, some shock foot. It's probably OK if it's mostly
irregular. Irregular armies tend to fight straight ahead, while regulars
often
succeed with the nuances of more complex maneuvers. You probably also want
an
army that is comfortable in a mix of terrain. This is helpful because it
means
you can learn more by experiementing with different kinds of terrain, but
also
because it means you can use terrain to protect you against disadvantageous
matchups.

So, some cav, some skirmishers, some shock foot, mostly irregular, good in
either open or rough terrain.... Sounds like Russ (Dark Age Warrior #30) to
me.
Here's my take on 1600 points:

CinC w/2 stands of Druzhina, Irr B HI 2HCW,Sh/JLS,Sh (182 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Irr C MI LTS,JLS,Sh (242 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B (110 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands of Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (110 points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (97 points)
2 units of 6 stands Varangians Irr B LHI JLS,Sh/Irr C LMI JLS,Sh (212
points)
1 unit of 2 stands of Varangian Berserkers Irr A LMI 2HCW,Sh/2HCW (52
points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Archers Irr B LMI JLS,B,Sh (85 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (130 points)
2 units Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (170 points)
2 units Bulgar Horse Archers Irr C/D LC JLS,B,Sh (206 points)

You have a very decent skirmish line of 2 units of shielded LI and 2 units
of
LC, probably with the Varangian archer unit thrown in to stiffen the mix a
bit.
Those five units will take down a lot of enemy light troops once you learn
how,
and in the mean time do a very decent job of enabling even a beginner to
hold
one flank in the open.

In the middle you've got the two Russ spear blocks, with your CinC lurking
in
reserve between and behind them. There isn't a whole lot these guys are
afraid
of. If you are facing something they're afraid of ("Moogs", perhaps) then
roll
up a hill for a terrain pick and park them on it.

On the other flank you want brush, woods, or some such, as a place for the
Varangians to live. This is your main attack force in most situations,
looking
to disrupt the enemy with initial charges so that the rest of your army can
exploit the disruptions in follow up.

The HC lancers are the reserve. They may stiffen your skirmish line if an
opponent tries to be aggressive there, or exploit disordered infantry
created
by your Varangians.

The hardest part of playing this army is learning to properly protect the
outer
flanks of the two Russ spear blocks, especially the "open" flank where the
light troops are operating. That's just a matter of practice, learning how
far
out in front the skirmishers need to be, when an HC unit can slide into a
flank
supporting role, knowing how to keep all the foot advancing at a consistent
pace so that you don't unecessarily expose yourself, etc.

Overall it's a fun army that you can learn a lot from playing, while not
being a
very complicated army. It's also high enough morale overall and resilient
enough
overall to be a forgiving army. You can recover from small mistakes, and
even in
a losing cause you're going to do some real damage; your opponent will know
he's
been in a fight.

Anyway, that's one recommendation; I'll try to think of others.


-Mark Stone







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Mallard]

Again appologies here - moving house rules/lists in a box somewhere. We have
this army in our group.I seem to remember a problem getting the LMI / LHI and
cavalry together in one list. Is the list below legal?



--- On July 29 Alex King said: ---

> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
> success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
> under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago, but
> I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
> pointers?.
>
> Kingo

Alex,

This is a GREAT question. Really glad you asked it. I'll have to ponder it some
to come up with several suggestions, but I'll start with just one for now.

First, some background. You want an army that is playable, not too hard to play,
but that you can learn from. Therefore it should have a mix of troop types: some
skirmishers, some cav, some shock foot. It's probably OK if it's mostly
irregular. Irregular armies tend to fight straight ahead, while regulars often
succeed with the nuances of more complex maneuvers. You probably also want an
army that is comfortable in a mix of terrain. This is helpful because it means
you can learn more by experiementing with different kinds of terrain, but also
because it means you can use terrain to protect you against disadvantageous
matchups.

So, some cav, some skirmishers, some shock foot, mostly irregular, good in
either open or rough terrain.... Sounds like Russ (Dark Age Warrior #30) to me.
Here's my take on 1600 points:

CinC w/2 stands of Druzhina, Irr B HI 2HCW,Sh/JLS,Sh (182 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Irr C MI LTS,JLS,Sh (242 points)
2 units of 6 stands each Russ Archers Irr C LI B,Sh/B (110 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands of Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (110 points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Axemen Irr B LHI 2HCW,Sh (97 points)
2 units of 6 stands Varangians Irr B LHI JLS,Sh/Irr C LMI JLS,Sh (212 points)
1 unit of 2 stands of Varangian Berserkers Irr A LMI 2HCW,Sh/2HCW (52 points)
1 unit of 4 stands Varangian Archers Irr B LMI JLS,B,Sh (85 points)

Ally gen w/2 stands Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (130 points)
2 units Bulgar Nobles Irr B HC L,B,Sh (170 points)
2 units Bulgar Horse Archers Irr C/D LC JLS,B,Sh (206 points)

You have a very decent skirmish line of 2 units of shielded LI and 2 units of
LC, probably with the Varangian archer unit thrown in to stiffen the mix a bit.
Those five units will take down a lot of enemy light troops once you learn how,
and in the mean time do a very decent job of enabling even a beginner to hold
one flank in the open.

In the middle you've got the two Russ spear blocks, with your CinC lurking in
reserve between and behind them. There isn't a whole lot these guys are afraid
of. If you are facing something they're afraid of ("Moogs", perhaps) then roll
up a hill for a terrain pick and park them on it.

On the other flank you want brush, woods, or some such, as a place for the
Varangians to live. This is your main attack force in most situations, looking
to disrupt the enemy with initial charges so that the rest of your army can
exploit the disruptions in follow up.

The HC lancers are the reserve. They may stiffen your skirmish line if an
opponent tries to be aggressive there, or exploit disordered infantry created
by your Varangians.

The hardest part of playing this army is learning to properly protect the outer
flanks of the two Russ spear blocks, especially the "open" flank where the
light troops are operating. That's just a matter of practice, learning how far
out in front the skirmishers need to be, when an HC unit can slide into a flank
supporting role, knowing how to keep all the foot advancing at a consistent
pace so that you don't unecessarily expose yourself, etc.

Overall it's a fun army that you can learn a lot from playing, while not being a
very complicated army. It's also high enough morale overall and resilient enough
overall to be a forgiving army. You can recover from small mistakes, and even in
a losing cause you're going to do some real damage; your opponent will know he's
been in a fight.

Anyway, that's one recommendation; I'll try to think of others.


-Mark Stone

[scott holder]

For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago, but
I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
pointers?.

>Most new players have this tendency to pick armies that they hear are "good".
They get frustrated when they get hammered because they tend to have trouble
running such armies, mainly because of the coordination involved. Seleucids are
certainly one, LIR are another.

>I always tell folks to pick a list suits their playing style and limit such a
list to few operational components. In fact, Derek's 19 elephant Khmer list is
a good example in that it has few moving parts:):)

scott

[scott holder]

Talk with Sean, ask questions here. He'll help you along so that the learning
curve with this army won't be so brutal.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Celella [mailto:pcelella@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:40 PM
To: WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Beginners army


I picked Swiss thinking that as a beginner, they would be a good
army - since they have high quality/morale, regular troops. I figured
the army would be easier to control and would pass more waver tests.
I haven't put it on the tabletop yet, so I don't know how it will
work out, but the comments I get from the experts here make me think
that I might have picked an army that actually requires more finesse
to use. I'm about 2/3rd of the waying through with painting it, so
I'm committed to it, but we'll see how it works out.

I'm afraid that maybe the more limited troop types the Swiss have
will be a liability for me.

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Alex King" <tors1@o...> wrote:
> For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> with. Its important for newbies to have a least a bit of moderate
> success and not be continually cut to ribbons. I was a good player
> under 6th and finished third in a big comp. here many years ago,
but
> I'm having a very lean time with my Seleucids under Warrior. Any
> pointers?.
>
> Kingo





Yahoo! Groups Links

[scott holder]

Another that come to mind is Early Burgundians. Okay, you hide the mounted
crossbowmen (Camp Defenders!) but otherwise, you have few moving parts, great
strike troops and loads of shooting.

Keep in mind that there are also loads of other armies like this that don't
"compete" very well but will do adequately to get you along the way until you
feel comfortable adding another moving part to your repetoire.

scott

Well I ended up taking a Galatian army, with some Greek allies.
The opposition was Lysymachid Successor, lots of lmi two handed cutting
weapons.
My Greek LC with AG attached lost the first melee by a few casualties total
and was forced to break off from melee with the enemy LC, they caught me and
destroyed me, with the general, the command then failed a couple of morale
checks and the command had to retire imeadiatly.
Why Why Why did AG with reg A bodyguard and rest of body Reg B have to break
off just because they marginally lost the first round of a melee???!!!.

The enemy had a long line of woods to hide in so I sat back with "wait"
orders, expecting the enemy to send light troops to attack,. they duly
arrived but advanced to one inch but did not shoot. I could not atack them
on wait orders as they did not cause 2 cpf, so was forced to eventually
change orders to "Attack" . My first unit of 6E I A lmi jls sh was then
forced to charge LC which of course they could not catch and had not fired a
shot at them, behind the enemy was a line of LMI . I ended up not being able
to charge them in a later bound but had to stand in reaction to the enemy
LMI being outside my charge reach and them chargeing me impetitiously.

I do not see the logic of being forced to charge LC who do not even shoot at
you, but if my troops are crazy enough to charge a unit that they can never
reach in a charge why, why why, do they suddenly become ordered enough to
have to stand still to recieve an impetious charge from troops who they
could reach in a counter charge. ?!!!. If the enemy had not been impetitous
I could have counter charged , whats the difference my troops are Ireg A
when all said and done. Do they have to stand because the enemy had sapped
my troops will to fight?, brickwalls could not stop these naked chaps once
they started to advance !!!.



Micky Mouse is alive and well !!!,

Kingo



----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bard" <mwbard@...>
To: <WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Beginners army


> I can offer some 'easy to use' armies:
>
> 1. Gallic (from the old WRG books still)
>
> For 1600pts:
>
> 3E CinC two-horse LCh, Irreg B, one w/JLS for 132 pts
> 3E two-horse LCh, Irreg B, one w/JLS for 73 pts
> 3E Noble Cav MC, Irreg B, JLS, Sh for 88 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, MI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 145 pts
> 6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
> 6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
> 6E Gestati, LMI, Irreg A, JLS, Sh for 115 pts
> 4E Javelinmen, LI, Irreg C, JLS, Sh for 55 pts
> 4E Slingers, LI, Irreg C, S, Sh for 55 pts
>
> Total: 1594pts
>
> Essentially everything but the Gestati hide in a corner somewhere
(slingers
> in front of the chariots behind lots of terrain). LMI Gestati deploy in
> woods, MI Gestati deploy in open. LI JLS in front to prevent some
charges.
> Push the start button, watch it go. Pretty well nobody cares if anybody
> routs, is destroyed, or anything. How successful? Depends on how often
you
> roll up.
>
> 2. Libyan -- Early Period (Biblical Warrior, List 5) -- aka 'The Amorphous
> Blob"
>
> For 1600 pts:
>
> 1E CinC LMI, Irreg B, JLS for 109 pts
> 1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
> 1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
> 1E Sub General LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 59 pts
> 9E Foot Bodyguard LMI Irreg B JLS, D for 133 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS, D for 97 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 12E Javelinmen LI Irreg C JLS for 73 pts
> 6E Archers LI Irreg C B for 49 pts
> 5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts
> 5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts
> 5E Archers LI Irreg C B for 45 pts
>
> Total: 1599 pts (3 E short of list maximums)
>
> Line the table with rows of LI (1 deep yields 4 bodies needed for 8' table
> yielding 3 lines, plus the Archers somewhere (flanks of front line?) for a
> total of 4 lines. The body guard forms one long line along the rear, the
> generals are behind them. Advance. Anything that charges a LI body
causes
> the LI to evade through lines further back. If a second line body is
> caught, then it causes fatigue to the chargers, and then routs.
Everything
> (almost) is LI so nobody cares. The LMI causes the LI to auto-rally when
> they pass through, and the general/sub-generals exist to catch any
leakers.
> As an enemy body becomes tired/disordered, other LI charge them in the
> flanks. The entire army slowly moves forward, absorbing any charges like
a
> blob, and then reforming and continuing to advance... Really frustrating
> for knight armies, but probably not the most fun to play...
>
> Probably there are others.
>
> Michael Bard
>
> > For new players and new players to Warrior can the "Experts" pick a
> > few armies that are easier to use and may be easier to scrape draws
> > with.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Quite a while back I recommended and lent African Vandals to
prospective new DBM players. The advantages were short, exciting
games, a straightforward and workable doctrine (vanguard to disrupt,
main body behind, and light horse commands on the flanks), and even
a shot at winning just by sheer aggression and good luck.

A limited number of troop types and simple, manageable doctrine that
can speed a player up the army learning curve seem to me to be key
attributes of a good beginner's army. So I think a consideration
for some is not having too many figures to paint if one buys the
lead or too many units to manage even if borrowed. Ultimately, as
Phil B. said, you should pick an army you will love even if it
loses, but it may be wise to get a little experience before making
that kind of commitment.

So what Warrior armies fit this bill?

Best regards,

Mike

[Tim Grimmett]

Islamic Persian!!

mailtomikek <mailtomikek@...> wrote:Quite a while back I recommended and
lent African Vandals to
prospective new DBM players. The advantages were short, exciting
games, a straightforward and workable doctrine (vanguard to disrupt,
main body behind, and light horse commands on the flanks), and even
a shot at winning just by sheer aggression and good luck.

A limited number of troop types and simple, manageable doctrine that
can speed a player up the army learning curve seem to me to be key
attributes of a good beginner's army. So I think a consideration
for some is not having too many figures to paint if one buys the
lead or too many units to manage even if borrowed. Ultimately, as
Phil B. said, you should pick an army you will love even if it
loses, but it may be wise to get a little experience before making
that kind of commitment.

So what Warrior armies fit this bill?

Best regards,

Mike






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Tim Grimmett <grimmetttim@y...> wrote:
> Islamic Persian!!

Pithy and enthusiastic response! I see your point -- there's a nice
range of upgrade choices around the core A/B HC Bow (presumably the
experts would usually upgrade them all with Lance?). There are some
lights available for terrain presence and skirmishing, but on the
whole a straightforward Lance/Bow cavalry army rather than
complex/versatile. And morphable figures as well. I understand HC
are a tricky troop type in terms of role, but playing with them
should be educational. If you learn how to use HC for shock, using
heavies should be easy, no? Or would a new player be better advised
to load up on EHC?

Aloha

Mike

I have found a lot of this recent beginner stuff to be very
educational. So now I'm going to ask another question like my last
one (about why should HG be mounted as LI).

Why are HC a tricky troop type?

How do you use HC for shock?

Peter

> I understand HC
> are a tricky troop type in terms of role, but playing with them
> should be educational. If you learn how to use HC for shock, using
> heavies should be easy, no?

[Tim Grimmett]

All must have lance.

I take them in 4E units of pure HC and pure EHC, and upgraded the EHC to IA (but
have toyed with the idea of 6E units with a general to direct fire). This
allows the HC to skirmish without having to charge any target, and the pure
units are in recognition of the fact that this army is often charging through
routers (all that shieldless LMI).

HC as a shock troop works against some none-shooting, non-LTS/P foot but is best
used as the second wave after the EHC has gone in.

Fun army with fewer moving parts for beginners; the IA factor means you can
nearly always hope a good die role will make up for tactical mistakes, and by
watching others run their regular armies you can pick up the mechanics of
running more combined arms-style armies.

My 2 cents.

mailtomikek <mailtomikek@...> wrote:
Tim Grimmett <grimmetttim@y...> wrote:
> Islamic Persian!!

Pithy and enthusiastic response! I see your point -- there's a nice
range of upgrade choices around the core A/B HC Bow (presumably the
experts would usually upgrade them all with Lance?). There are some
lights available for terrain presence and skirmishing, but on the
whole a straightforward Lance/Bow cavalry army rather than
complex/versatile. And morphable figures as well. I understand HC
are a tricky troop type in terms of role, but playing with them
should be educational. If you learn how to use HC for shock, using
heavies should be easy, no? Or would a new player be better advised
to load up on EHC?

Aloha

Mike




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