Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

> From: JonCleaves@...
>Subject: Re: Re: close order bowmen
>
>In a message dated 12/29/2003 11:31:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>spocksleftball@... writes:
>
> > Were these regulars? the testing waver on these guys as
> > shieldless
> > MI hurts a non-waver testing guy like me >>
>
>Regular D, I believe.
>
>We're talking 12E units here. A guy has to shoot you for 96 to get that
>waver....

Yup, Derek Downs, in his NICT winning force, had one 48 figure Reg D MI B
unit. In order to put 96 casualties on such a unit from shooting you would
have to fire 24 figures of LB or B. Doable, but you also face a massive
return shot...and you basically have to be using regular loose missile guys.
Also, Derek was free to use the regular nature of his bow block to maneuver
appropriately...and he didn't leave the unit unsupported in cases where it
would have been destroyed.

Given the usefulness of such a unit, there are other armies that can get MI
with a missile weapon. Some are irreg, some reg, some can get shields or
pavise.

Various medieval lists can get regular MI CB,Pa...which can be very
effective shooters, while being relatively immune to shooting themselves
given a large unit and the Pavise.

You might say, however, that they are vulnerable to hand-to-hand attack.

This isn't really the case if opposed by cavalry. Think of how many points
of cavalry must assault your MI and where those forces are not if they
choose that option.

Let's say you have a 48 figure Reg D MI CB,Pa (front rank)/CB (rear rank)
unit. That costs 130 points. Your opponent wants to beat it (not necessarily
rout it at contact, which would require 144 casualties). Two Irr B HC L,Sh
units attack the very end of your MI unit (somehow you are unable to support
it, or counter those elements away, or you choose to take it). Prep shooting
should put 1 CPF on one HC unit, and 3 CPF on the other.

Both HC units charge impetuously, you support shoot, putting 2 CPF on one HC
and 4 CPF on the originally disordered HC unit (which must test waver, but
let's say they pass). You get hit with 5 figures at a 8 for about 37 and 5
figures at 4 for 15...woops, that's 52 and so you have just barely taken a
CPF...as you put out 8 HTH casualties to each HC unit, you lose the combat.
Both HC units are tired and disordered (one of them is at 11 fatigue!). You
recoil disordered. One of the HC units may have chosen to break through, but
perhaps not.

You'll start taking waver tests as the HC continue to win...but you may
exhaust the one unit before you break.

This is about the cheapest cavalry assault that could be launched against
you...and even it costs 158 points....and leaves two of the enemy's lance
units in bad shape.

It's much more effective for the enemy to send infantry against you. What's
good about your crossbows is that they fire at full two ranks out to or
beyond the charge range of any enemy infantry.

You would, however, still lose to a variety of infantry assaults...but most
of them would require that the enemy commit a number of units (and thus
points) close to or greater than what your MI unit cost you.

Ultimately, though, it isn't these exchanges in a vacuum that are
important...but rather how you are combining the effect of the missile fire
you have with your other units to attack the enemy.

Frank Gilson

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[Kelly Wilkinson]

Once again this all comes down to individual tactics. That's why Warrior is the
best game in the miniature universe! People can look at an army and say, "that's
a crap army!" But I've seen "Crap armies" played very effectively due to
ingenious tactics and usage of terrain! Yes, some armies are crap, but in the
hands of skilled players like Frank, Tim, Dave, Chris, Greg, etc. . . they can
be tough nuts to crack!

kelly

Frank Gilson <franktrevorgilson@...> wrote:

> From: JonCleaves@...
>Subject: Re: Re: close order bowmen
>
>In a message dated 12/29/2003 11:31:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>spocksleftball@... writes:
>
> > Were these regulars? the testing waver on these guys as
> > shieldless
> > MI hurts a non-waver testing guy like me >>
>
>Regular D, I believe.
>
>We're talking 12E units here. A guy has to shoot you for 96 to get that
>waver....

Yup, Derek Downs, in his NICT winning force, had one 48 figure Reg D MI B
unit. In order to put 96 casualties on such a unit from shooting you would
have to fire 24 figures of LB or B. Doable, but you also face a massive
return shot...and you basically have to be using regular loose missile guys.
Also, Derek was free to use the regular nature of his bow block to maneuver
appropriately...and he didn't leave the unit unsupported in cases where it
would have been destroyed.

Given the usefulness of such a unit, there are other armies that can get MI
with a missile weapon. Some are irreg, some reg, some can get shields or
pavise.

Various medieval lists can get regular MI CB,Pa...which can be very
effective shooters, while being relatively immune to shooting themselves
given a large unit and the Pavise.

You might say, however, that they are vulnerable to hand-to-hand attack.

This isn't really the case if opposed by cavalry. Think of how many points
of cavalry must assault your MI and where those forces are not if they
choose that option.

Let's say you have a 48 figure Reg D MI CB,Pa (front rank)/CB (rear rank)
unit. That costs 130 points. Your opponent wants to beat it (not necessarily
rout it at contact, which would require 144 casualties). Two Irr B HC L,Sh
units attack the very end of your MI unit (somehow you are unable to support
it, or counter those elements away, or you choose to take it). Prep shooting
should put 1 CPF on one HC unit, and 3 CPF on the other.

Both HC units charge impetuously, you support shoot, putting 2 CPF on one HC
and 4 CPF on the originally disordered HC unit (which must test waver, but
let's say they pass). You get hit with 5 figures at a 8 for about 37 and 5
figures at 4 for 15...woops, that's 52 and so you have just barely taken a
CPF...as you put out 8 HTH casualties to each HC unit, you lose the combat.
Both HC units are tired and disordered (one of them is at 11 fatigue!). You
recoil disordered. One of the HC units may have chosen to break through, but
perhaps not.

You'll start taking waver tests as the HC continue to win...but you may
exhaust the one unit before you break.

This is about the cheapest cavalry assault that could be launched against
you...and even it costs 158 points....and leaves two of the enemy's lance
units in bad shape.

It's much more effective for the enemy to send infantry against you. What's
good about your crossbows is that they fire at full two ranks out to or
beyond the charge range of any enemy infantry.

You would, however, still lose to a variety of infantry assaults...but most
of them would require that the enemy commit a number of units (and thus
points) close to or greater than what your MI unit cost you.

Ultimately, though, it isn't these exchanges in a vacuum that are
important...but rather how you are combining the effect of the missile fire
you have with your other units to attack the enemy.

Frank Gilson

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I stay away from big missile units with any mounted. That is what
foot are for, especially reg loose order. It's very difficult to
absorb the support shot without committing too much of your army
against a small portion of his. A 4E LMI,Jls,Sh unit at 74 points
charging out of skirmish is much more effective than multiple HC, EHC
or heaven forbid SHK. Better yet avoid his missles and kill his
supports and force morale checks on the D class missles.

Just a thought,
Wes