Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Ewan McNay]

Subject: Tacticals

You are facing the following army just deployed by your opponant:

5x 2E IrgA/B HK/HC L/sh
2x 2E RgC LC B/sh
12E IrgC HI/MI/MI JLS/sh B
6E IrgC HI/MI/MI LTS/sh CB
12E IrgD LMI B/IPW
6E IrgD LI B
6E LHI 2HCW/JLS/sh

**
Adding up the points, and including generals, this seems to be a ~1200-1400
point force (figuring ~500 for the HK/HC, 84 for the LC, ~200 for the big HI,
~120 small HI, 60 for LMI, 40 for LI, 140 for LHI gets me to 1140 without
gens/standards).
**

There is a small wood on one flank and a hill on the other. The IrgD
LMI are on the hill while the LHI are pointed at the wood. The LI
have been forced marched to the center of the board. The close order
infantry are flanked by K who are again flanked by LC.

How would you approached neutralizing this armies obvious shock
troops while avoiding the energy sponge HI?

**
Well, if I'm being evil and competitive at 1200 I'm using Seleucids, and on that
terrain set up I have pikes in the middle, small regular LI and chariots
force-marched middle and to the wood, peltasts aimed at hill, and El between
pike and peltasts and in centre. A couple of 2E LC JLS, Sh units floating
around the edges.

Which means that I expect the LHI to spend the game chasing a 2E LI unit, the LC
on both sides to be largely ineffective but perhaps getting a charge from your
IrrAs, or a win if we actually get into contact with your LC, the IrrD LMI to
die very rapidly and expose that flank completely (meaning that you'll be unable
to advance there for fear of having them come in on the flank), and my pikes and
El to walk down the middle.

Now, that's a bad army for you to be facing, and it would not be unreasonable
for your LHI to be more central (which alas cedes the wood, creating threats on
both your flanks): in which case I would attempt to fight the LHI with either
pikes or peltasts (or even catch them at the halt with the one unit of EHC that
I have; they're going to be uneasy unless the PA advances closer than it will
wish to, and may well have two unease causes anyway, even if I can't get to 125
paces). Your LI in the middle are going to be coming back toward you rapidly
and causing problems, I expect; your HK may find themselves forced to charge
through, even.

Give me something more friendly for you - say Inca, which you'll likely
outscout. In that case, I'm probably going to avoid the wood (assuming that
your LHI are there) and plan to come over the hill flank. Your close fooot have
a good chance, if played well, of sucking up some shooting from the HK -
although they would do this better if they were 3x6E - and so while my plan is
of course going to be to counter if need be, then move to within 120 and blow
awy the HK, it's a little more difficult than the above. I think you will find
it very difficult to control your flanks, though: the close foot are unlikely to
be able to get there, and nothing else can stand up to the sling/JLS combo.

What do you think that you can kill well?

Ewan

Excellent response Ewan, thanks.

Here is the plan now revealed. The LMI B/IPW on the hill are there
to lure you in; it isnt' a job for close order, and any mounted short
of SHK/SHC will be hit hard by shooting so will avoid it as a
target. That leaves LHI or LMI to clear the hill. The idea is to
block the center with the HI/MI blocks and put the HK on the left
into whatever is approaching the cheap bow on the hill. On a 4x6
board the entire army will be up there by the end of marches. the LC
on the left will attempt to close down the far left avenue. The
woods are a feint with the LHI. If the Selucids or any EL are my
opponant, then I'd displace the LHI to behind and between the HI in
preparation to counter punch or hunt EL. The 2 units of HK plan on
hanging back after the 2nd march bound to be prompted to move to the
left wing in support of the flank trap. If I abandon the wood, it
will be up to the right LC to keep whatever is there, there. The LI
are to stop marches, then teleport back behind the close order asap.

Against any missile armed foe, I'll try to absorb as much as possible
with the LC, HI, and LI.

What this army kills well is anything I can get into contact with and
roll up. The problem is simply getting into contact fresh and
ordered...:)

Wanax


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Ewan McNay <ewan.mcnay@y...>
wrote:
> Subject: Tacticals
>
> You are facing the following army just deployed by your opponant:
>
> 5x 2E IrgA/B HK/HC L/sh
> 2x 2E RgC LC B/sh
> 12E IrgC HI/MI/MI JLS/sh B
> 6E IrgC HI/MI/MI LTS/sh CB
> 12E IrgD LMI B/IPW
> 6E IrgD LI B
> 6E LHI 2HCW/JLS/sh
>
> **
> Adding up the points, and including generals, this seems to be a
~1200-1400 point force (figuring ~500 for the HK/HC, 84 for the LC,
~200 for the big HI, ~120 small HI, 60 for LMI, 40 for LI, 140 for
LHI gets me to 1140 without gens/standards).
> **
>
> There is a small wood on one flank and a hill on the other. The
IrgD
> LMI are on the hill while the LHI are pointed at the wood. The LI
> have been forced marched to the center of the board. The close
order
> infantry are flanked by K who are again flanked by LC.
>
> How would you approached neutralizing this armies obvious shock
> troops while avoiding the energy sponge HI?
>
> **
> Well, if I'm being evil and competitive at 1200 I'm using
Seleucids, and on that terrain set up I have pikes in the middle,
small regular LI and chariots force-marched middle and to the wood,
peltasts aimed at hill, and El between pike and peltasts and in
centre. A couple of 2E LC JLS, Sh units floating around the edges.
>
> Which means that I expect the LHI to spend the game chasing a 2E LI
unit, the LC on both sides to be largely ineffective but perhaps
getting a charge from your IrrAs, or a win if we actually get into
contact with your LC, the IrrD LMI to die very rapidly and expose
that flank completely (meaning that you'll be unable to advance there
for fear of having them come in on the flank), and my pikes and El to
walk down the middle.
>
> Now, that's a bad army for you to be facing, and it would not be
unreasonable for your LHI to be more central (which alas cedes the
wood, creating threats on both your flanks): in which case I would
attempt to fight the LHI with either pikes or peltasts (or even catch
them at the halt with the one unit of EHC that I have; they're going
to be uneasy unless the PA advances closer than it will wish to, and
may well have two unease causes anyway, even if I can't get to 125
paces). Your LI in the middle are going to be coming back toward you
rapidly and causing problems, I expect; your HK may find themselves
forced to charge through, even.
>
> Give me something more friendly for you - say Inca, which you'll
likely outscout. In that case, I'm probably going to avoid the wood
(assuming that your LHI are there) and plan to come over the hill
flank. Your close fooot have a good chance, if played well, of
sucking up some shooting from the HK - although they would do this
better if they were 3x6E - and so while my plan is of course going to
be to counter if need be, then move to within 120 and blow awy the
HK, it's a little more difficult than the above. I think you will
find it very difficult to control your flanks, though: the close foot
are unlikely to be able to get there, and nothing else can stand up
to the sling/JLS combo.
>
> What do you think that you can kill well?
>
> Ewan

[Todd Schneider]

I have uploaded a file to the fiels section called
Boyd Answer. It is in powerpoint format.

I am using an LIR Army. It is 1204 Points

2E General Reg B HC Jls, Sh
2E Equites Reg C HC Jls, Sh
2 x 6E Legions, Reg C, MI, HTW, JLS, D, Sh
6E Auxilla Reg C, LHI, JLS, D, Sh
4E Auxilla Archers Reg D LMI B, Sh
4E Illyricani Reg C LC JLS Sh
2 x 2E Clibinarri EHC L, B, Sh
6E Skirmishers Reg D LI S, Sh
6E Huns Irr C LC JLS, B, Sh

Total Scouting Point: 33

The LI would be force marched to oppose the other LI.
I would force march the Huns on My Left to the wood
line, from there they could tie up all three Units on
the right flank.

The Legionary on the right woul be used to move the B
LMI of the hill, if the LMI kept moving away, or
skirmishing away, I think the HC and LC on that side
could also keep it honest. The Legionaries vs. the
HI/MI LTS, Sh block are a contest they would win by
themselves on even dice.

I would look at putting the auxilla 80P away from the
big JLS block and skirmishing it.

Whoemever handled their Cav the best would most likely
determine the outcome of the battle.

Feel free to show me the error of my ways.

Todd

Excellent Todd!

In your deployment, you are consistent with my anticipated lure of
the LMI B on the hill. They are slated for early death to lure the
enemy in. As it is they will occupy 3 of your units for at least 2
to 3 bounds. I see an opportunity in your line with the center
legion unit while you are licking your chops on the hill.
Essentially I would aim both of my left HK and the LTS armed HI at
them for a 1-2 punch with one HK unit daring your EHC to protect the
legionares. I feel certain my large HI unit will keep your other
central forces from assisting on that flank. On the right (your
left) the huns present a problem only because of the proximity of
your LMI B; the B armed LMI I will respect on that front and push the
2HCW guys out to deflect/lure your units away there. I'm planning on
loosing 3 units and killing/shaking 5. I loose the LMI B, the LI and
1 HK unit. I kill one EHC and one MI unit that shakes the LI and LC
units on your right. I then catch the Cav unit that pursued my
routers as it rallies (or something). Sounds like a very good game
in any event!

Certainly you are right that the game comes down to if I can get hold
of your EHC with my kniggits, or if you can effectively push the hill
top LMI off quick enough to delay my left-of-center attack. I think
I'd have to pull at least 1 HK unit over to the hill to try and catch
a pursuing unit in bound 4.

Excellent discussion btw.

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Schneider <thresh1642@s...>
> The LI would be force marched to oppose the other LI.
> I would force march the Huns on My Left to the wood
> line, from there they could tie up all three Units on
> the right flank.
>
> The Legionary on the right woul be used to move the B
> LMI of the hill, if the LMI kept moving away, or
> skirmishing away, I think the HC and LC on that side
> could also keep it honest. The Legionaries vs. the
> HI/MI LTS, Sh block are a contest they would win by
> themselves on even dice.
>
> I would look at putting the auxilla 80P away from the
> big JLS block and skirmishing it.
>
> Whoemever handled their Cav the best would most likely
> determine the outcome of the battle.
>
> Feel free to show me the error of my ways.
>
> Todd

[Todd Schneider]

Boyd,

If you make it out to Kansas City for Call to Arms in
May we just might have an opportunity to find out.
8-)

What list are you using for your example?

Todd


--- spocksleftball <spocksleftball@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Excellent Todd!

In your deployment, you are consistent with my
anticipated lure of
the LMI B on the hill. They are slated for early
death to lure the
enemy in. As it is they will occupy 3 of your units
for at least 2
to 3 bounds. I see an opportunity in your line with
the center
legion unit while you are licking your chops on the
hill.
Essentially I would aim both of my left HK and the LTS
armed HI at
them for a 1-2 punch with one HK unit daring your EHC
to protect the
legionares. I feel certain my large HI unit will keep
your other
central forces from assisting on that flank. On the
right (your
left) the huns present a problem only because of the
proximity of
your LMI B; the B armed LMI I will respect on that
front and push the
2HCW guys out to deflect/lure your units away there.
I'm planning on
loosing 3 units and killing/shaking 5. I loose the
LMI B, the LI and
1 HK unit. I kill one EHC and one MI unit that shakes
the LI and LC
units on your right. I then catch the Cav unit that
pursued my
routers as it rallies (or something). Sounds like a
very good game
in any event!

Certainly you are right that the game comes down to if
I can get hold
of your EHC with my kniggits, or if you can
effectively push the hill
top LMI off quick enough to delay my left-of-center
attack. I think
I'd have to pull at least 1 HK unit over to the hill
to try and catch
a pursuing unit in bound 4.

Excellent discussion btw.

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Schneider
<thresh1642@s...>
> The LI would be force marched to oppose the other
LI.
> I would force march the Huns on My Left to the wood
> line, from there they could tie up all three Units
on
> the right flank.
>
> The Legionary on the right woul be used to move the
B
> LMI of the hill, if the LMI kept moving away, or
> skirmishing away, I think the HC and LC on that side
> could also keep it honest. The Legionaries vs. the
> HI/MI LTS, Sh block are a contest they would win by
> themselves on even dice.
>
> I would look at putting the auxilla 80P away from
the
> big JLS block and skirmishing it.
>
> Whoemever handled their Cav the best would most
likely
> determine the outcome of the battle.
>
> Feel free to show me the error of my ways.
>
> Todd



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I'll tell you next week :)

yes it is all just mental masterbation, but it certainly is more fun
than deciding where I want to legally drop my unemplaced stakes ;)

I can't make it to Kansas, but you're welcome to come to Florida for
one of our tournaments. We do 25mm on 4x6 tables. Fast, deadly, and
fun. This year it is 2.5 hour rounds also. Most games are over by
bound 6 or 7, since at low points an army will only be between 8 and
11 units. Any central unit will probably take 2 shakers with it, thus
the emphasis on getting the enemy to concentrate on the flank and
leave the center to me... hope it works ;)

Wanax



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Todd Schneider <thresh1642@s...>
wrote:
> Boyd,
>
> If you make it out to Kansas City for Call to Arms in
> May we just might have an opportunity to find out.
>
>
> What list are you using for your example?
>
> Todd
>
>
> --- spocksleftball <spocksleftball@y...> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
> Excellent Todd!