Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[scott holder]

12 folks played in a 4 round, 1200 point, 15mm Warrior tourney on 30 Apr and 1
May 2004. We played on 4x4 tables with a 2.5 hour time limit and used the
"orders card" for the first time. Both worked well and the orders card will
definitely be used for all the Warrior tourneys at Hcon. I'll post a file so
people can download and print their own since I'll have some but not a
bazillion.

Many kudos to Don Coon, Patrick Byrne and Craig Stevens who came up from various
points in the Independent Republic of Texas to participate. It was Craig's
first Warrior tourney in something like 10 years. Additional kudos to Steve
Hollowell, a really really new Warrior player participating in his first tourney
AND was running what has to be one of the most challenging lists (to decipher)
published, Italian Condotta. Sean Scott woulda been proud!

Sponsors were: FHE, NASAMW, The Dead General's Society, Kelly Wilkinson and Dave
Smith.

Prizes went as follows:

Best Rookie (defined as someone who's never qualified for the NICT AND who's
never won Best Rookie before): Charles Yaw

DGS Military Misfortune Award (last place): Mike Turner

Next to last place (Kelly brings stuff for this): Craig Stevens

Next to next to last place: Paul Leuschen

Best Camp: Jon Becker (his white shading was gorgeous)

Best Terrain: Jon Cleaves (although his stuff was "store bought" and we really
wanted home-made stuff, we're still working thru this category)

Best Painted Army: Patrick Byrnes (Vikings)
We also gave out a nice painting kit to the player who placed highest with an
army he didn't paint. Charles Yaw won that goodie.

Final Results:

1) Jon Cleaves, Med Spanish, 29.1
2) Charles Yaw, L. Polish, 26.9
3) Patrick Byrnes, Vikings, 18.5
4) Don Coon, Ghaznavid, 16.7
5) Kelly Wilkinson, Ptolemaic, 12.1
6) Jon Becker, Holy Roman Imperial, 11.8
7) Steven Hollowell, Italian Condotta, 11.4
Matt Johnson, Early Germans, 10.4
9) Todd Schnieder, Marian Roman, 8.3
10) Paul Leuschen, Swiss, 6.7
11) Craig Stevens, Qin Chinese, 4.2
12) Mike Turner, Late Imperial Roman, 3.4

Charles has a tentative NICT bid. Of course he also needs to *join* NASAMW,
hint hint. I'll get his name up on my site in a week or so. Jeff, if you could
go ahead and put him up on the NASAMW site, that would be great.

The next HAHMGS con is Border Wars over Columbus Day weekend in October. I
won't be there so some other poor slug will hafta ump. Possible formats will be
some type of 25mm Fast Warrior event......OR.......the Dogs of War in 15mm.
That would be Tim Brown's wonderful tournament idea with 420 points (not
counting command points) out of 1200 that must be D or worse. I'm sure Jon or
somebody will post particulars once they've been decided upon.

Again, thanks to the Texicans for riding north.

scott

[joncleaves]

Some refinem,ents to Scott's info...lol (It's ok, I do this to his lists all
the time, too...)

>
> Sponsors were: FHE, NASAMW, The Dead General's Society, Kelly Wilkinson and
Dave Smith.>>

Dave Smith is the drving force behind the Tallgrass Ancients Player's Society
(TAPS), which is the organization that provided the excellent plaques for the
major award categories.
NASAMW provided money for prizes through our superb RC, Darrell Smith. It was
used to provide the Vallejo Ancient and Medieval paint set.
The DGS provided the Osprey Masterclass on Ancient and Medieval Modelling for
first place and the Osprey on Cannae for the Military Misfortune award.
HAHMGS provided a Ren Ink $10 certificate to EVERYONE who played.
Kelly provided the prizes for Next to Last and Next to Next to Last.


> Best Rookie (defined as someone who's never qualified for the NICT AND who's
never won Best Rookie before): Charles Yaw>>

Charles was the highest placing player to whom this applied, which is how this
is awarded.

> Best Terrain: Jon Cleaves (although his stuff was "store bought" and we really
wanted home-made stuff, we're still working thru this category)>>

We didn't do so well here. LOTs of felt and no real 'constructed' terrain. I
am going to work with Dave to reuse the plaque for next time. I used Worldmaker
terrain, but I am ineligible to win anything for it.

> We also gave out a nice painting kit to the player who placed highest with an
army he didn't paint. Charles Yaw won that goodie.>>

The Chris Campbell Lifetime Achievement Award is given to help players get their
figures painted... Charles did paint many of the figs in his army, but not
100%.


>
> Charles has a tentative NICT bid. Of course he also needs to *join* NASAMW,
hint hint. I'll get his name up on my site in a week or so. Jeff, if you could
go ahead and put him up on the NASAMW site, that would be great.>>

Scott, if he is up on the website and we are asking him to be a member, why is
it tentative?? Guys need to plan now to attend or not...

>
> The next HAHMGS con is Border Wars over Columbus Day weekend in October. >>

It is actually 1-3 October. I was guessing Columbus Day when we talked.

<< I won't be there so some other poor slug will hafta ump.>>

That slug would be me. Our tradition is the the winner of the last tourney runs
the next one.

<< Possible formats will be some type of 25mm Fast Warrior
event......OR.......the Dogs of War in 15mm. >>

We are indeed doing Dogs of War in 15mm at Border Wars. Next Call to Arms will
be a 25mm Mini.

> Again, thanks to the Texicans for riding north.>>

Yes, thanks to all for a great event!

Jon

Congrats Jon. Can you post your list for examination? I'm curious
how you ran the Med. Spanish.

Wanax

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:52:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> Congrats Jon. Can you post your list for examination? I'm
> curious
> how you ran the Med. Spanish.>>

The Inquisition never reveals its secrets!!

Well, ok, this once....

2E Irr B SHK/EHK Cinc
2E Irr B SHK/EHK Subgeneral
2E Irr B SHK/EHK
6E Irr C LI CB
6E Irr C LI S, 1/2Sh
2E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
4E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
2x4E Irr B LMI HTW, JLS, 1/2Sh
2E Reg B SHK/HK English Ally
2x4E Reg C LMI LB, 1/2Sh
2x2E Reg C LMI LB, Sh

I think this is right. Note that the lights are all minima.

J

I see much punch, no line and barely any delay!


> The Inquisition never reveals its secrets!!
>
> Well, ok, this once....
>
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Cinc
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Subgeneral
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK
> 6E Irr C LI CB
> 6E Irr C LI S, 1/2Sh
> 2E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
> 4E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
> 2x4E Irr B LMI HTW, JLS, 1/2Sh
> 2E Reg B SHK/HK English Ally
> 2x4E Reg C LMI LB, 1/2Sh
> 2x2E Reg C LMI LB, Sh
>
> I think this is right. Note that the lights are all minima.

Interestingly, I've been saying for weeks how with the new recall LI
are overated. I see less LI here than in most of my lists, which
prompts me to wonder why some players still insist on running a full
screen?

Thanks for sharing Jon. Right off it looks as if your plan is to run
the English up and start shooting while the Irg LMI and SHK manuver
into position for a concentrated punch. The LC and LI ward off other
areas. Am I right?

Wanax

>
> J

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/3/2004 3:17:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> I see much punch, no line and barely any delay!>>

I would not quite agree.

I have punch, true. But you have got to be REAL careful with Moogs at 4E. And
K kills them. Dead. I have been working very hard at making them part of the
combined arms team, but they are not the super troop people think. For one
thing, they are damned slow...lol

Line? I don't need no stinking line... Seriously - it only hurts not to have
it if the other guy makes you pay for not having it...

'Delay' is not a word I am comfortable with in Warrior army descriptions. I
certainly could use what I have to delay all day (4 light units and 4 reg LMI
with missiles out of 14 units...) But delay gets ya killed - at least it gets
*me* killed. If the other guy throws me a screen, I want to kill it/chase it
off quick. And this list has the tools to do exactly that.... :)

J

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Boyd,

Although Jon's Longbowmen were effective in my game. It was his bold use of
his light cavalry that really got things going for him. And yes, his shooting
mostly from his moogs and slingers prepped up my Elephants for their defeat
which involved me rolling down 2 and his moogs going up 2 or 3 as my memory
serves me right. For the most part, I recall the knights being dismounted except
for the one on the left flank that I managed to break {only after it had broken
one of my pike units }.
More than anything, I believe that it was Jon's willingness to mix it up as
soon as possible. He aggressively moved forward where he was strong and
effectively covered any weak areas with skirmishing LMI. Even though I lost,
Jon's game was by far the most fun for me during the tournament. In fact, I can
say with a smile it ranks up with the most fun I've had playing Warrior since I
broke a Swiss pike block with a Cinc belonging to Mr. Todd Kaesar with a bunch
of up 6 rolling Arab EHC, L, Sh Yahoo's!

kelly

Wanax Andron <spocksleftball@...> wrote:
I see much punch, no line and barely any delay!


> The Inquisition never reveals its secrets!!
>
> Well, ok, this once....
>
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Cinc
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Subgeneral
> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK
> 6E Irr C LI CB
> 6E Irr C LI S, 1/2Sh
> 2E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
> 4E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
> 2x4E Irr B LMI HTW, JLS, 1/2Sh
> 2E Reg B SHK/HK English Ally
> 2x4E Reg C LMI LB, 1/2Sh
> 2x2E Reg C LMI LB, Sh
>
> I think this is right. Note that the lights are all minima.

Interestingly, I've been saying for weeks how with the new recall LI
are overated. I see less LI here than in most of my lists, which
prompts me to wonder why some players still insist on running a full
screen?

Thanks for sharing Jon. Right off it looks as if your plan is to run
the English up and start shooting while the Irg LMI and SHK manuver
into position for a concentrated punch. The LC and LI ward off other
areas. Am I right?

Wanax

>
> J



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, kelly wilkinson
<jwilkinson62@y...> wrote:

> More than anything, I believe that it was Jon's willingness to
mix it up as soon as possible. He aggressively moved forward where he
was strong and effectively covered any weak areas with skirmishing
LMI.

It is as I have feared...Jon's playing style mirrors mine (or visa
versa).

This has been my point about 1200 points for some time. Not enough
money to waste on LI B/sh, just move forward and attack. :)

Anyway, I can see how this would happen, I'm just less successful
using LMI as a screening/skirmishing force without substantial
mounted presence.

Wanax

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 5/3/2004 3:42:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
spocksleftball@... writes:

> It is as I have feared...Jon's playing style mirrors mine
> (or visa versa).>>

Nothing to fear, Boyd. I suck at this game. Just ask Ewan...lol

Sorry - couldn't resist. Many :)

Ever since my Han debacle last summer, I have been working on LMI-K tactics,
playing more non-fantasy Warrior than at any other point in my life. My biggest
obstacle is the number of other periods I play in besides ancient/medieval (I
know - horrors!...lol)
I sat the Han out this year to motivate me to get another army painted in 25mm
and to try and put what happened behind me. They'll be back - and then it will
be taking what I have learned and transitioning to LHI-missile cav.

I am looking into my next 25mm army, which initially is Sassanids. I got them
to give my best friend an historical opponent, but I am also looking into an
entirely no-missile army to counter Mark's theory that missile fire rules in
Warrior...lol

Juan Clihavez

[Mark Stone]

--- On May 3 Wanax Andron said: ---

> I see much punch, no line and barely any delay!
>
>> The Inquisition never reveals its secrets!!
>>
>> Well, ok, this once....
>>
>> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Cinc
>> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK Subgeneral
>> 2E Irr B SHK/EHK
>> 6E Irr C LI CB
>> 6E Irr C LI S, 1/2Sh
>> 2E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
>> 4E Irr C LC JLS, Sh
>> 2x4E Irr B LMI HTW, JLS, 1/2Sh
>> 2E Reg B SHK/HK English Ally
>> 2x4E Reg C LMI LB, 1/2Sh
>> 2x2E Reg C LMI LB, Sh

Why do you think that 4 units of lights don't constitute a line??

In fact the longbowmen can happily live on the line as well. They can skirmish,
they're regulars, they make most of their counters. By your definition no army
I've ever run has a "line".


-Mark Stone

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stone <mark@d...> wrote:
> --- On May 3 Wanax Andron said: ---

> Why do you think that 4 units of lights don't constitute a line??
>
> In fact the longbowmen can happily live on the line as well. They
can skirmish,
> they're regulars, they make most of their counters. By your
definition no army
> I've ever run has a "line".
>
>
> -Mark Stone

Everyone plays differently :)

I tend to think of anything with even a slight offensive capasity as
shock troops, since I end up charging with them rather quickly :)

No offense given hopefully. Usually when playing against me, it is
not sufficient to use light infantry or cavalry to hold a line. That
is all my mindset considered.

In looking at Jon's army, I would feel comfortable running it, but
I'd probably run it a little differently depending upon the threat.
Again, this is a selling point of Warrior since even the same army
list will invite different ways to general it (for good or ill). :)

Wanax