Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Ed Forbes]

Hi Jon,

A question came up in our game this week on how expansion is actually
performed.

6.123 Change in Frontage: seems to imply that the element is picked up
off the table and is then placed back on the table, adjacent an element
in the front rank and on the end of the line, if it can fit and not
contact another element. Normal movement restrictions, such as passing
gaps, do not apply. As one of the group stated "death from above".

The issue came up when a unit in the middle of a line was pushed back out
of line with its friendly units very close to each of its flank ( 20
paces or less). The front of the pushed back unit was now behind the
rear ranks of its friendly units to each of its flank. The unit that won
the combat that forced the unit to recoil now picked up an element of its
rear rank off of the table and extended its front rank, as allowed under
6.126 and with "fit", not contacting a new enemy unit in any way. This
newly extend line of the following up unit was now to the rear of the
flanking units.

One objection to this move was that there was not sufficient space, one
element width, to pass the expanding element to its front rank past the
flanking units. Which is correct? I am keeping and printing these
questions and answers for my file, so it would be helpful to keep the
entire question in your reply.

xxxx
oooooo
xxxxxxooooxxxxxxx
oooo

Thanks,
Ed

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[joncleaves]

In a message dated 4/20/2003 13:15:06 Central Daylight Time,
eforbes100@... writes:

> Hi Jon,
>
> A question came up in our game this week on how expansion is actually
> performed.

Ok, Ed. I am going to do my level best here. But much of this makes no
sense to me even after a third reading. I am going to go step by step and
respond to each piece of your mail and see if that helps you.

>
> 6.123 Change in Frontage: seems to imply that the element is picked up
> off the table and is then placed back on the table, adjacent an element
> in the front rank and on the end of the line

That is correct.


, if it can fit and not>
> contact another element.

Well, it must contact a friendly element - so you must mean enemy here. And
since 6.123 says nothing of the enemy, I am not sure what the question is
yet, nor why we are talking about enemy elements in a discussion about 6.123.
If you are saying that you can't contact the enemy when conducting an
expansion as a maneuver during approaches, that would be correct as you can't
get within 40p of an enemy element in approaches normally.

>
>
Normal movement restrictions, such as passing
> gaps, do not apply.

In an expansion, all normal restrictions do apply. And since passing gaps is
a 'permission' and not a 'restriction', I have no clue what is being said
here.

<<As one of the group stated "death from above".>>

No idea whatsoever what you mean by this.



>
> The issue came up when a unit in the middle of a line was pushed back out
> of line with its friendly units very close to each of its flank ( 20
> paces or less).

Now it seems we are not talking about approaches, but combat results. I
think I can picture what was just said, so I will continue with that picture.
I will note that I have placed a powerpoint file in the files section of the
group with all the same 'element' pictures that were used in the rules - the
point of that file is for people to employ it to make a graphic of their
rules questions.

The front of the pushed back unit was now behind the>
> rear ranks of its friendly units to each of its flank.

I will assume the 'middle unit' was recoiled. There is no 'push back' move
in Warrior, but there are many combat results move that send a unit away from
its opponent (recoil, rout, break-off, etc)


The unit that won>
> the combat that forced the unit to recoil now picked up an element of its
> rear rank off of the table and extended its front rank, as allowed under
> 6.126 and with "fit", not contacting a new enemy unit in any way. This
> newly extend line of the following up unit was now to the rear of the
> flanking units.

Ok. That all sounds good. I will point out that it 'seems' like that would
all be hard to do and not have the side edges of the following up unit in
contact with one or more side edges of the units to the flank of the
recoil/followup as you said less than 20p were available on each side. But
as long as the following up unit does not touch an enemy, it may expand if
loose or open order, so I'll have to assume I have the mental picture
correct.

>
> One objection to this move was that there was not sufficient space, one
> element width, to pass the expanding element to its front rank past the
> flanking units.

Now, this is the hard part. One element width of what where? The 'ascii'
diagram you included offers no clues to me what the question is, so I have to
guess. As there are four little 'o's in between the line of 'x's, I can only
assume the recoiling unit is four elements wide. If that is true the gap
between the two flanking units is over an element wide and no issue of 6.53
is in play here whatsoever.

I will guess that some of your fellow players feel that there is supposed to
be a 'gap' between the end of the recoiling unit and the nearest flanking
friendly unit before an expanding element of the following up unit can 'move
through it'. This isn't correct for a lot of reasons, but the most simple of
which is that 6.53 says:

"This rule is only intended for use when a body intends to move between two
.shoulders. to a position beyond."

The following up body is not moving through (or attempting to move through)
the small gap between the friendly flank units and the recoiler to a position
beyond. An element of the following up unit may be in a space between those
two units that is less than an element wide as it is not trying to move
between them to a position beyond.

Also true is:

"This rule does not apply to a body moving into contact with one
of the shoulders itself."

As the following up unit is in contact with the recoiler, it is not bound by
any 6.53 considerations between the recoiler and another unit, only the two
flank units between which, if I understand the question, the recoil/followup
occurred.


<<Which is correct? >>

I am not sure which 'which' you are talking about, I hope I guessed
correctly.


I am keeping and printing these>
> questions and answers for my file, so it would be helpful to keep the
> entire question in your reply.

I believe I have done that right.

>
> xxxx
> oooooo
> xxxxxxooooxxxxxxx
> oooo


I 'think' I understand the above diagram, but these type diagrams are often
much more harm than good.

Jon


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