Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

Kelly Wilkinson · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:24 am Post subject: Clear Terrain Rules Question

Jon,

What is the definition in Warrior terms for "Clear Terrain?"
I've looked all over the rules without success. Can you help me by
telling me the section I can find this in? Or perhaps can you define
this phrase, pretty please?

kelly wilkinson

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "jwilkinson62"
<jwilkinson62@y...> wrote:
> Jon,
>
> What is the definition in Warrior terms for "Clear Terrain?"
> I've looked all over the rules without success. Can you help me by
> telling me the section I can find this in? Or perhaps can you
define
> this phrase, pretty please?
>
> kelly wilkinson>>

"6.71 Terrain Types
Warrior recognizes four terrain types:
Open. Terrain with no effect on the game.
Difficult. See below.
Impassable. Terrain that cannot be entered or crossed. (Cliffs,
major water features, etc.). Note that some terrain may be impassable
to one troop type, but counts as another category to others.
Other. Terrain that does not hinder movement, but has a game effect.
(Gentle hills, roads)"

Kelly Wilkinson

So then "clear terrain is not defined in warrior? The reason I was asking is,
the Medieval Scandinavian list specifically states that it's Temporary
Fortifications can be placed in clear terrain.

Jon <JonCleaves@...> wrote:--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com,
"jwilkinson62"
<jwilkinson62@y...> wrote:
> Jon,
>
> What is the definition in Warrior terms for "Clear Terrain?"
> I've looked all over the rules without success. Can you help me by
> telling me the section I can find this in? Or perhaps can you
define
> this phrase, pretty please?
>
> kelly wilkinson>>

"6.71 Terrain Types
Warrior recognizes four terrain types:
Open. Terrain with no effect on the game.
Difficult. See below.
Impassable. Terrain that cannot be entered or crossed. (Cliffs,
major water features, etc.). Note that some terrain may be impassable
to one troop type, but counts as another category to others.
Other. Terrain that does not hinder movement, but has a game effect.
(Gentle hills, roads)"

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joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

Open = Clear

Kelly Wilkinson

Thanks Jon, Sorry to be such a pain.

kelly

Jon <JonCleaves@...> wrote:
Open = Clear

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Mark Stone · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Clear Terrain Rules Question

On September 17 Kelly Wilkinson asked:

> > What is the definition in Warrior terms for "Clear Terrain?"
> > I've looked all over the rules without success. Can you help me by
> > telling me the section I can find this in? Or perhaps can you
> define
> > this phrase, pretty please?
> >

And then Kelly further clarified:

> So then "clear terrain is not defined in warrior? The reason I was asking is,
> the Medieval Scandinavian list specifically states that it's Temporary
> Fortifications can be placed in clear terrain.
>

To which Jon Cleaves replied:

>
> Open = Clear
>

Now, I'm a great admirer of answers that are both clear and concise, but I
suspect Jon may have zipped through this one just a little too quickly.

Jon: Putting all of this together, are you therefore saying that as an exception
to the terrain placement rules, Medieval Scandinavian have the sort of special
temporary fortification that enables them to place said temporary
fortifications within the bounds of an open space placed during terrain
placement?

Because if you're _not_ saying that, then either (a) Open != Clear or (b) the
Medieval Scandinavian list is in need of errata.

-Mark Stone

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 9/18/2004 09:46:33 Central Daylight Time,
mark@... writes:

Jon: Putting all of this together, are you therefore saying that as an
exception
to the terrain placement rules, Medieval Scandinavian have the sort of
special
temporary fortification that enables them to place said temporary
fortifications within the bounds of an open space placed during terrain
placement?>>
They do not and cannot.

And it won't matter in a couple days because the entire revised terrain/14.0
package will be on the street which will obviate the temporary open space/TF
clarification.

But no, the Med Scand list is not an exception to that clarification.
Clearly to even the most casual observer, what Scott did was to allow a wooden
barricade (historically what they employed) which is 'most like' abatis. But
since abatis can only be inside a woods, he needed to clarify that for the Med
Scand list it could be in clear (or open) terrain.

Which, for someone as exacting as it would take to try and construe this
differently, is not an open SPACE, which is a terrain SELECTION. Something
conveniently overlooked when a loophole is being sought, no? ;)

I was beginning to wonder why the new 12.0/14.0 combo was running to 19
pages. Now I am reminded why...lol

Jon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Recruit Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 67

So they can't deploy it on a Hill?

JonCleaves@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/18/2004 09:46:33 Central Daylight Time,
> mark@... writes:
>
> Jon: Putting all of this together, are you therefore saying that as an
> exception
> to the terrain placement rules, Medieval Scandinavian have the sort of
> special
> temporary fortification that enables them to place said temporary
> fortifications within the bounds of an open space placed during terrain
> placement?>>
> They do not and cannot.
>
> And it won't matter in a couple days because the entire revised
> terrain/14.0
> package will be on the street which will obviate the temporary open
> space/TF
> clarification.
>
> But no, the Med Scand list is not an exception to that clarification.
> Clearly to even the most casual observer, what Scott did was to allow
> a wooden
> barricade (historically what they employed) which is 'most like'
> abatis. But
> since abatis can only be inside a woods, he needed to clarify that
> for the Med
> Scand list it could be in clear (or open) terrain.
>
> Which, for someone as exacting as it would take to try and construe this
> differently, is not an open SPACE, which is a terrain SELECTION.
> Something
> conveniently overlooked when a loophole is being sought, no? Wink

>
> I was beginning to wonder why the new 12.0/14.0 combo was running to 19
> pages. Now I am reminded why...lol
>
> Jon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Kelly Wilkinson

Exactly the reason for my question. I couldn't find a definition for clear
terrain and thought this was an oversight or perhaps something else. Most other
lists state that only two such TF's may be placed in Friendly Forward areas.
When I read that the baracades could be placed in clear terrain, I was a bit
baffled where this was leading.

kw

JonCleaves@... wrote:
In a message dated 9/18/2004 09:46:33 Central Daylight Time,
mark@... writes:

Jon: Putting all of this together, are you therefore saying that as an
exception
to the terrain placement rules, Medieval Scandinavian have the sort of
special
temporary fortification that enables them to place said temporary
fortifications within the bounds of an open space placed during terrain
placement?>>
They do not and cannot.

And it won't matter in a couple days because the entire revised terrain/14.0
package will be on the street which will obviate the temporary open space/TF
clarification.

But no, the Med Scand list is not an exception to that clarification.
Clearly to even the most casual observer, what Scott did was to allow a wooden
barricade (historically what they employed) which is 'most like' abatis. But
since abatis can only be inside a woods, he needed to clarify that for the Med
Scand list it could be in clear (or open) terrain.

Which, for someone as exacting as it would take to try and construe this
differently, is not an open SPACE, which is a terrain SELECTION. Something
conveniently overlooked when a loophole is being sought, no? ;)

I was beginning to wonder why the new 12.0/14.0 combo was running to 19
pages. Now I am reminded why...lol

Jon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Kelly Wilkinson

You know Bob, this is a very good question. I myself have thought that it would
make sense to have TF's located on hills especially camps with their ditch and
palisade.

kelly

Bob Andriola <doctormm@...> wrote:
So they can't deploy it on a Hill?

JonCleaves@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/18/2004 09:46:33 Central Daylight Time,
> mark@... writes:
>
> Jon: Putting all of this together, are you therefore saying that as an
> exception
> to the terrain placement rules, Medieval Scandinavian have the sort of
> special
> temporary fortification that enables them to place said temporary
> fortifications within the bounds of an open space placed during terrain
> placement?>>
> They do not and cannot.
>
> And it won't matter in a couple days because the entire revised
> terrain/14.0
> package will be on the street which will obviate the temporary open
> space/TF
> clarification.
>
> But no, the Med Scand list is not an exception to that clarification.
> Clearly to even the most casual observer, what Scott did was to allow
> a wooden
> barricade (historically what they employed) which is 'most like'
> abatis. But
> since abatis can only be inside a woods, he needed to clarify that
> for the Med
> Scand list it could be in clear (or open) terrain.
>
> Which, for someone as exacting as it would take to try and construe this
> differently, is not an open SPACE, which is a terrain SELECTION.
> Something
> conveniently overlooked when a loophole is being sought, no? Wink

>
> I was beginning to wonder why the new 12.0/14.0 combo was running to 19
> pages. Now I am reminded why...lol
>
> Jon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
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>
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>
>
>
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joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 9/18/2004 23:47:35 Central Daylight Time,
doctormm@... writes:

So they can't deploy it on a Hill?>>

[
Sure they can - since the non-steep part of a non-rocky hill is open/clear
terrain.

Jon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

joncleaves · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 16447

In a message dated 9/19/2004 09:06:53 Central Daylight Time,
doctormm@... writes:

I thought that was "Other".>>
No, other has a game effect but isn't in one of the first three categories,
like gentle slope or road. Open (or clear) has no game effect.

I am in the final days of the draft 12.0/14.0 revision and all this language
will be cleared up. I would prefer to finish that and get it out so it can
be playtested and I can move on to the next section of the rulebook.

Also, as soon as it is out, the revised 12.0/14.0 will be in effect at all
NASAMW events, all Fifth Horsemen events and all events I run, to include
Border Wars. We will respectfully request it be used at all local Warrior
events
and that feedback to us be provided.

So, what I am saying is, I would respectfully request that we hold off on
questions on 12.0/14.0 the next day or two since it is better for me to get
this done than to keep clarifying things I am fixing as a total package anyway.

Thanks!
Jon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Recruit Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 67

I thought that was "Other".

JonCleaves@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 9/18/2004 23:47:35 Central Daylight Time,
> doctormm@... writes:
>
> So they can't deploy it on a Hill?>>
>
>
>
>
> [
> Sure they can - since the non-steep part of a non-rocky hill is
> open/clear
> terrain.
>
> Jon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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