Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Tim Grimmett]

Just a thought. (Jon must hate that expression by now)

Current rule as written states a command becomes automatically
demoralized when %50 of command is shaken/broken/destroyed.

Suggest that instead of making that automatic, we introduce a random
factor that reflects my totally unproven thesis that an army with a high
percentage of A/B troops (Gauls/Vikings/ Mongols) would have a higher break
point than an army composed of C/D troops.

Proposed wording along the lines of the following.

5.15 Demoralization. A command must check for demoralization the moment at
least one half of its on-table units are destroyed, broken or shaken.

5.151. An army's demoralization factor is determined by a percentage of A/B
elements divided by the total number of elements in the army. If the army's
percentage of A/B troops is 80% or higher, the command becomes demoralized
on a roll of 1-2; if 60%, on a roll of 1-3; if 40%, on a roll of 1-4.
Subsequent demoralization checks are made in the end phase of every turn in
which the command is above the 50% threshold in 5.15.

5.151 Effects of Demoralization: In the first order phase after a
command fails it demoralization roll, the command's order is automatically
changed to RETREAT (4.51). The command can not be given any other order
unless it recovers from demoralization.

5.152 Recovery from Demoralization: A command recovers from
demoralization when over one half of its units are no longer destroyed,
broken or shaken. This balance must be corrected by units recovering or
returning, not by units leaving the field. (recovers to HOLD?)

Final percentages can be determined by playtesting.

Tim Grimmett



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
http://click.egroups.com/1/5533/2/_/_/_/961192780/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Dave Markowitz]

Demoralization under 7.6 is a very stark rule. That is, it does not
provide for those few glorious units who would fight to the end,
regardless of what was happening around them. Because the 2/3 number
required to demoralize an enemy's command is difficult to Warrior and
7.6 (Just think of all those battles where you needed to "shake or
break" one more unit to demoralize a command). Because it will
change the dynamic of many games, perhaps some adjustment to what it
means to be "demoralized" should be taken into account. attain, I
don't think we really gave it much thought.

From what I've seen so far, the 50% demorizization rule is by far the
biggest difference between Warrior and 7.6. Because it will change
the dynamic of many games, perhaps some adjustment to what it means
to be "demoralized" should be taken into account.
n

Tim's suggested rule is interesting, but, because no one ever
believes that it is their commands that will go into retreat, I would
bet that people would't start calculating the percentage of A and B
class troops in their command until, well, they had to. That would
often mean about three hours into a battle. Possibly an annouance--
prone to easy mistakes--similar to morale checks under 6th edition.

Another suggestion would be that every body in a demoralized command
had to take a waver test, counting as uneasy, with a -2 (or something
like that) to its role. If you fail, and you probobly will, you
break. However, a few glorious elite units, if they get lucky, could
stick around. Each unit would have to take this test every turn the
command was demoralized.





--- In WarriorRules@egroups.com, "Grimmett, TimothyB"
<GrimmettTB@s...> wrote:
> Just a thought. (Jon must hate that expression by now)
>
> Current rule as written states a command becomes automatically
> demoralized when %50 of command is shaken/broken/destroyed.
>
> Suggest that instead of making that automatic, we introduce a
random
> factor that reflects my totally unproven thesis that an army with a
high
> percentage of A/B troops (Gauls/Vikings/ Mongols) would have a
higher break
> point than an army composed of C/D troops.
>
> Proposed wording along the lines of the following.
>
> 5.15 Demoralization. A command must check for demoralization the
moment at
> least one half of its on-table units are destroyed, broken or
shaken.
>
> 5.151. An army's demoralization factor is determined by a
percentage of A/B
> elements divided by the total number of elements in the army. If
the army's
> percentage of A/B troops is 80% or higher, the command becomes
demoralized
> on a roll of 1-2; if 60%, on a roll of 1-3; if 40%, on a roll of 1-
4.
> Subsequent demoralization checks are made in the end phase of every
turn in
> which the command is above the 50% threshold in 5.15.
>
> 5.151 Effects of Demoralization: In the first order phase
after a
> command fails it demoralization roll, the command's order is
automatically
> changed to RETREAT (4.51). The command can not be given any other
order
> unless it recovers from demoralization.
>
> 5.152 Recovery from Demoralization: A command recovers from
> demoralization when over one half of its units are no longer
destroyed,
> broken or shaken. This balance must be corrected by units
recovering or
> returning, not by units leaving the field. (recovers to HOLD?)
>
> Final percentages can be determined by playtesting.
>
> Tim Grimmett
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5533/2/_/_/_/961192780/
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Dave Markowitz]

I disagree. Here are the current requirements for troops under Retreat orders:


RETREAT Must try to leave table by the quickest route to own table edge, or to
edge of arrival it flank marchers, using march moves it possible, otherwise
retirement moves. Mounted or light troops fighting hand-to-hand mist break-off.
Troops approached within enemy charge reach can attempt to counter. Any charged
while retreating make normal responses if steady, otherwise stand and break on
contact.


Only units who are already in ememy charge reach can counter. They are doing so
to get away, not to provide cover. Moreover, unstready troops break on contact
(being of a high moral grade does not help your units here). Perhaps most
importantly, all unit must try to leave the table (not exactly condusive to
fighting to the end).

I see the 50%/Retreat rule having the biggest effect on barbarian horde armies,
who must sacrifice waves of forces before being able to overwhelm their enemy.

___________________________________________
Actually, the ability to fight to the death is already in place using the
existing rules. Units that are not shaken or routing, but in retreat, may
counter to face existing enemy to act as cover for the retreating forces.
Elite units will do this better than others.
Philip Gardocki

[Phil Gardocki]

Actually, the ability to fight to the death is already in place using the
existing rules. Units that are not shaken or routing, but in retreat, may
counter to face existing enemy to act as cover for the retreating forces.
Elite units will do this better than others.
Philip Gardocki

(610) 495-7923 (answering machine)
(610) 495 8937
I'm twice as smart as those two watt bulbs.
Meowth
-----Original Message-----
From: DMarkowitz@... <DMarkowitz@...>
To: WarriorRules@egroups.com <WarriorRules@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:50 PM
Subject: [WarriorRules] Re: Demoralization 5.141


>Demoralization under 7.6 is a very stark rule. That is, it does not
>provide for those few glorious units who would fight to the end,
>regardless of what was happening around them. Because the 2/3 number
>required to demoralize an enemy's command is difficult to Warrior and
>7.6 (Just think of all those battles where you needed to "shake or
>break" one more unit to demoralize a command). Because it will
>change the dynamic of many games, perhaps some adjustment to what it
>means to be "demoralized" should be taken into account. attain, I
>don't think we really gave it much thought.
>
>From what I've seen so far, the 50% demorizization rule is by far the
>biggest difference between Warrior and 7.6. Because it will change
>the dynamic of many games, perhaps some adjustment to what it means
>to be "demoralized" should be taken into account.
>n
>
>Tim's suggested rule is interesting, but, because no one ever
>believes that it is their commands that will go into retreat, I would
>bet that people would't start calculating the percentage of A and B
>class troops in their command until, well, they had to. That would
>often mean about three hours into a battle. Possibly an annouance--
>prone to easy mistakes--similar to morale checks under 6th edition.
>
>Another suggestion would be that every body in a demoralized command
>had to take a waver test, counting as uneasy, with a -2 (or something
>like that) to its role. If you fail, and you probobly will, you
>break. However, a few glorious elite units, if they get lucky, could
>stick around. Each unit would have to take this test every turn the
>command was demoralized.
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In WarriorRules@egroups.com, "Grimmett, TimothyB"
><GrimmettTB@s...> wrote:
>> Just a thought. (Jon must hate that expression by now)
>>
>> Current rule as written states a command becomes automatically
>> demoralized when %50 of command is shaken/broken/destroyed.
>>
>> Suggest that instead of making that automatic, we introduce a
>random
>> factor that reflects my totally unproven thesis that an army with a
>high
>> percentage of A/B troops (Gauls/Vikings/ Mongols) would have a
>higher break
>> point than an army composed of C/D troops.
>>
>> Proposed wording along the lines of the following.
>>
>> 5.15 Demoralization. A command must check for demoralization the
>moment at
>> least one half of its on-table units are destroyed, broken or
>shaken.
>>
>> 5.151. An army's demoralization factor is determined by a
>percentage of A/B
>> elements divided by the total number of elements in the army. If
>the army's
>> percentage of A/B troops is 80% or higher, the command becomes
>demoralized
>> on a roll of 1-2; if 60%, on a roll of 1-3; if 40%, on a roll of 1-
>4.
>> Subsequent demoralization checks are made in the end phase of every
>turn in
>> which the command is above the 50% threshold in 5.15.
>>
>> 5.151 Effects of Demoralization: In the first order phase
>after a
>> command fails it demoralization roll, the command's order is
>automatically
>> changed to RETREAT (4.51). The command can not be given any other
>order
>> unless it recovers from demoralization.
>>
>> 5.152 Recovery from Demoralization: A command recovers from
>> demoralization when over one half of its units are no longer
>destroyed,
>> broken or shaken. This balance must be corrected by units
>recovering or
>> returning, not by units leaving the field. (recovers to HOLD?)
>>
>> Final percentages can be determined by playtesting.
>>
>> Tim Grimmett
>>
>>
>>
>>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/5533/2/_/_/_/961192780/
>>
>>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
>Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
>Install today:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5667/2/_/_/_/961264203/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Phil Gardocki]

What you have quoted backs up my comment. Steady foot troops can continue
to fight. Other troops, the ones with the ability to get away because of
speed, will do so. The concept of elite units fighting to the death, still
exists, but is uncommon, as it historically was.
Philip Gardocki

(610) 495-7923 (answering machine)
(610) 495 8937
I'm twice as smart as those two watt bulbs.
Meowth
-----Original Message-----
From: DMarkowitz@... <DMarkowitz@...>
To: WarriorRules@egroups.com <WarriorRules@egroups.com>
Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WarriorRules] Re: Demoralization 5.141


>I disagree. Here are the current requirements for troops under Retreat
orders:
>
>
>RETREAT Must try to leave table by the quickest route to own table edge, or
to edge of arrival it flank marchers, using march moves it possible,
otherwise retirement moves. Mounted or light troops fighting hand-to-hand
mist break-off. Troops approached within enemy charge reach can attempt to
counter. Any charged while retreating make normal responses if steady,
otherwise stand and break on contact.
>
>
>Only units who are already in ememy charge reach can counter. They are
doing so to get away, not to provide cover. Moreover, unstready troops
break on contact (being of a high moral grade does not help your units
here). Perhaps most importantly, all unit must try to leave the table (not
exactly condusive to fighting to the end).
>
>I see the 50%/Retreat rule having the biggest effect on barbarian horde
armies, who must sacrifice waves of forces before being able to overwhelm
their enemy.
>
>___________________________________________
>Actually, the ability to fight to the death is already in place using the
>existing rules. Units that are not shaken or routing, but in retreat, may
>counter to face existing enemy to act as cover for the retreating forces.
>Elite units will do this better than others.
>Philip Gardocki
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
>experiments.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5532/2/_/_/_/961353255/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>WarriorRules-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Jake Kovel]

I like Tim's ideas but I would suggest:

5.15 Demoralization. A command is demoralized at the end of any turn in
which at
least one half of its assigned units are destroyed, broken or shaken and one
of the following conditions exists:
A. its general is destroyed, broken or shaken or
B. all remaining on-table units are morale grade "C" or lower or
C. it fails a demoralization check.

5.151. An command's demoralization factor is determined by dividing the
number of A/B units in the command that are not broken, shaken or destroyed
by the total number of units remaining in the command that are not broken,
shaken or destroyed . If the command's percentage of A/B troops is 80% or
higher, the command becomes demoralized on a roll of 1-2; if 60%, on a roll
of 1-3; if 40%, on a roll of 1-4.
Subsequent demoralization checks are made in the end phase of every turn in
which the command is above the 50% threshold in 5.15. (% can be worked out)

5.151 Effects of Demoralization: In the first order phase after a
command fails it demoralization roll, the command's order is automatically
changed to RETREAT (4.51). The command can not be given any other order
unless it recovers from demoralization. All units in the command receive an
additional -1 to any waver checks.

5.152 Recovery from Demoralization: A command recovers from
demoralization when over one half of its units are no longer destroyed,
broken or shaken. This balance must be corrected by units recovering or
returning, not by units leaving the field. Commands recovering from
demoralization have their orders changed to HOLD.