Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Chris Bump]

Jon,

<< << Also note the "non impetuous"
added nomenclature. Chris insists impetuous troops do not test waver vs
mounted chargers even when their charge is cancelled.>>

Chris is incorrect.
>
Just to close the loop, because a charge can be canceled in a number of ways,
if a body of loose order foot in the open declares an impetuous charge on the
same body of cav that is charging it and hence canceling the foot's impetuous
charge; Does that foot unit who is now no longer charging waiver? Obviously
assuming no other mitigating circumstances, terrain, other bodies charging as
well etc. I am not arguing the point,as I am not a proponent of loose order
troops being able to avoid the waiver by simply declaring impetuous (assuming
of course that they meet all criteria neccessary to declare impetuous).
But..........This is how its been played.

Thanks for your patience,

Chris

[Chris Bump]

Jon,

You comment on:
<<
> If two loose order units are facing each other at an acute angle, but just
> barely acute, and the two closest elements opposing each other are 80
paces
> apart but the two furthest elements opposing each other are more than 240
> paces apart (big units). Both units declare a charge. The outside
elements
> do not have the movement to make contact. I recall seeing that we were no
> longer going to step back units that do not have the range to make
contact.
> Do both units conform to gain full contact with all elements facting each
> other?>>
>
> Yes. Elements in contact pivot for free. Elements that did not make
contact
> go their full move, echeloning back if they must. If they cannot stay in
> side contact with friendly elements, no charge. The echeloning back is
> similar to the old 20p thing, but not the same.
>>
I would next ask how would follow up and pursuit work? During follow up
would the elements that did not make contact make a movement of greater than
40 paces (all that is normally allowed with a follow up) to attempt to close?
Seems logical, but I find myself wary of Rules Lawyers who would attempt to
disallow such.

What about pursuit? Would the pursuing unit stay echeloned? Could a unit
cease pursuit in an effort to re-align or because it could not maintain
contact with the whole unit? A what point would it realign? On what line
would it re-align, ie do the furthest forward elements step back, or do the
echeloned back elements get free movement forward?

Chris

[joncleaves]

Yes, this is July 4th. I'm up to my butt in Warrior, but promise to take a
break at fireworks time!

Chris asks:

<< Just to close the loop, because a charge can be canceled in a number of
ways,
if a body of loose order foot in the open declares an impetuous charge on
the
same body of cav that is charging it and hence canceling the foot's
impetuous
charge>>

I do not see why the foot's charge is cancelled. Mounted only cancel
nonimpetuous foot charges. It would be cancelled if the mounted charge was
coming from outside the path of the foot's charge, but that is not what you
are describing. Impetuous foot CAN charge cav that charge them, and have
been able to do so since at least 1992. (WRG 7 page 25 para 9). They will
also be able to in Warrior (6.165).

<<Does that foot unit who is now no longer charging waiver?>.

They are still charging, so no.

<< Obviously assuming no other mitigating circumstances, terrain, other
bodies charging as well etc. I am not arguing the point,as I am not a
proponent of loose order troops being able to avoid the waiver by simply
declaring impetuous (assuming
of course that they meet all criteria neccessary to declare impetuous).>>

I'm sorry you do not agree, but that is the rule. It has been the rule for
as long as I can remember. I find that paragraph of WRG 7 to be clear on the
point (if strangely written) and will ensure Warrior says it better. I do
not think impetuous foot charging cav is to 'avoid a waver', I think it is
just how the game is played.

<< But..........This is how its been played.>>

Not in any game or tourney I have played in, and I have been with 7th since
it came out.

Please do not take my tone as combative; email can give the wrong impression.
I am answering your question both from a WRG 7 standpoint (Warrior's start
position) and how it will be in Warrior. I think you have been misled,
either by the strange language of WRG 7 or by a teacher not fully versed in
it. I am truly sorry about that and, for what it is worth, bought my part of
WRG 7 (and am slaving over a hot rules set on a holiday) just for reasons
like this.

Happy 4th!
Jon

Thanks for your patience,

Chris >>

[joncleaves]

Chris asks for clarification to my comments below.

<<(me) > Yes. Elements in contact pivot for free. Elements that did not
make
contact
> go their full move, echeloning back if they must. If they cannot stay in
> side contact with friendly elements, no charge. The echeloning back is
> similar to the old 20p thing, but not the same.
>>
(Chris): I would next ask how would follow up and pursuit work? During
follow up
would the elements that did not make contact make a movement of greater than
40 paces (all that is normally allowed with a follow up) to attempt to
close?
Seems logical, but I find myself wary of Rules Lawyers who would attempt to
disallow such.
What about pursuit? Would the pursuing unit stay echeloned? Could a unit
cease pursuit in an effort to re-align or because it could not maintain
contact with the whole unit? A what point would it realign? On what line
would it re-align, ie do the furthest forward elements step back, or do the
echeloned back elements get free movement forward?>>

Funny you should ask, but I was working on this last night. I am stealing
the language on resolving this almost verbatim from the interp book. Rather
than restate here, check out the rule on making contact (6.165) in the draft
I send out next week. I think it is very clear and clean on this point, but
would like your review.

Jon

[Ewan McNay]

On Mon, 3 Jul 2000 cncbump@... wrote:
> Just to close the loop, because a charge can be canceled in a number of ways,
> if a body of loose order foot in the open declares an impetuous charge on the
> same body of cav that is charging it and hence canceling the foot's impetuous
> charge; Does that foot unit who is now no longer charging waiver? Obviously
> assuming no other mitigating circumstances, terrain, other bodies charging as
> well etc. I am not arguing the point,as I am not a proponent of loose order
> troops being able to avoid the waiver by simply declaring impetuous (assuming
> of course that they meet all criteria neccessary to declare impetuous).
> But..........This is how its been played.

Chris: what you're missing is that in that case, the foot's charge is
*not* cancelled.

Apologies if this is alrady answered further down my email stack.
--
Dr. Ewan McNay - Behavioral Neuroscience, Yale University.
(203) 432-7005