Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 7/5/2003 10:24:38 Central Daylight Time,
jjmurphy@... writes:

> The Varangians, then, get to expand 4E wide to a single rank
>

While I agree with your analysis for the most part, EHI can't expand on a
follow up as it is close order.
Just to be correct and all...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Murphy]

While I was wrong about the Regular Varangians against 4-deep pikes
(which I don't think they ever historically faced did they?)
The original statement, I believe, related to jav-armed
foot trash historical opponents

So...
Since I'm sick enough to enjoy gloating over what they can do
Let's dredge into the obvious
and see how the Bulgaroctonos' Guards do against
their historical "jav trash" opposition...

Please tell me if I am missing something here

Varangians 4E Reg A EHI 2HCW, Sh, horses @ 202 points
Slav Spearmen 6E Irr C LMI JLS, Sh @ 79 points

(hey, no one said it was even points-wise
but we will at least give the Slavs a bigger unit
since this follows the "recommended unit sizes")

Varangians are on horses so they can march into position
without taking EHI march move fatigue

Since there's a gazillion possibilities for approaches here
We'll ignore the possible 1 fatigue
For Reg EHI dismounting and approaching on foot
You'll see it does not make any difference

Let's say the Slavs get a prep shot 14 figures with JLS
14 @ -2 = 7 casualties
= 7/16 = 0 CPF so No Effect
So the Varangians can sit there and suck up Javelins
all day until the Slavs roll up 3 (1/36 or less than 3% chance)
and even then it is only 1 CPF

Now, worst and most dreaded case (assuming frontal contact)
is the Slavs manage to not be uneasy or restricted by orders
and they get an expensive irregular prompt (if required)
so the Slavs charge impetuously
and this causes the Varangians take it at a halt

Slavs take 1 fatigue going in
for the impetuous foot charge

Varangians take no fatigue for EHI
since they are at a halt

no support shots by either side
(and it certainly wouldn't hurt the Varangians anyway as we have seen)

Slavs fight 1.5 ranks JLS
(2HCW, such as Varangians, do not count as shieldless
when charging or being charged)
= 9 figs @ 0 +2 (impetuous) +1 (charging) (no JLS+ against EHI)
= 9 @ +3 = 23 casualties

Varangians fight 1 rank 2HCW
= 8 figures @ +5 (no modifiers apply)
= 8 @ +5 = 32 casualties

Varangians take 23/16 = 1 CPF for 1 fatigue
Slavs take 32/18 = 1 CPF for 2 fatigue
This gives Slavs 3 Fatigue for the whole charge + combat

Once again a combined random swing of 2 or more in the Slavs favor
will change this but consider that with "A" class regulars
against "C" irregulars this is less likely than the 25% mentioned
earlier
(let's not get into that again though here)

On the other hand remember that if the Varangians roll up 2,
and combined up 2, they break the Slavs first bound of contact
without breaking a sweat
And all this has assumed the Slavs charge and do so impetuously
If the Varangians had been charging and getting the 1.5 ranks...

So, back to where we were...
Slavs must recoil or break off (received more casualties and 1 CPF)
If Slavs recoil then Varangians have the option to follow up

Obviously Varangians are ahead here so far
so the only "chance" for the Slavs is if they recoil
and are followed up by the Varangians

You can probably already see this is only going to get better but...

The Varangians, then, get to expand 4E wide to a single rank

so the second bound of HtH

no support shooting

Slavs now fight only 1 rank JLS
= 9 figs @ 0 +1 (shieldless)
= 9 @ +1 = 13 casualties

Varangians still only fight 1 rank 2HCW but that 1 rank is now
= 16 figures @ +5 +1 (following up)
= 16 @ +6 = 80 casualties

Varangians take 13/16 = 0 CPF for no fatigue
This leaves Varangians 1 Fatigue for the whole 2 bounds
Slavs take 80/18 = 4 CPF for 8 fatigue
This gives Slavs 11 Fatigue for the whole 2 bounds
So Slavs are now tired

Slavs break and rout (received double casualties and 3 CPF)
Varangians have the option to pursue (Reg close foot)

Admittedly the Reg A Varangians _could_ roll down 2
or the Slavs _could_ roll up 4
(not simply a combined Varangians down 2 - that won't save the Slavs)
but the chances of either of these are 1/36 each or less than 5% total

End result looks like singing in the mead halls
of the imperial palace barracks
Plus about 900 more blinded Bulgar vassals
Less the 100 or so beyond need of the Bulgaroctonos' ministrations

(Plus all the requisite waver tests caused...)

[John Murphy]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> While I agree with your analysis for the most part, EHI can't
expand on a
> follow up as it is close order.
> Just to be correct and all...

Oops, well it doesn't change the end result
just prolongs the agony for the Slavs

so the second bound of HtH

no support shooting

Slavs now fight only 1 rank JLS
= 9 figs @ 0 +1 (shieldless)
= 9 @ +1 = 13 casualties

Varangians still only fight 1 rank 2HCW
= 8 figures @ +5 +1 (following up)
= 8 @ +6 = 40 casualties

Varangians take 13/16 = 0 CPF for no fatigue
This leaves Varangians 1 Fatigue for the whole 2 bounds
Slavs take 40/18 = 2 CPF for 4 fatigue
This gives Slavs 7 Fatigue for the whole 2 bounds
So Slavs are now tired

Slavs are disordered (received double casualties and 1 CPF)
Slavs must break off or recoil
If Slavs recoil
then Varangians have the option to follow up (Reg close foot)

THIRD BOUND of HtH

still no support shooting

Slavs still fight only 1 rank JLS
= 9 figs @ 0 +1 (shieldless) -1 (tired) -1 (disordered)
= 9 @ -1 = 7 casualties

Varangians still only fight 1 rank 2HCW
= 8 figures @ +5 +1 (following up)
= 8 @ +6 = 40 casualties

Varangians take 7/16 = 0 CPF for no fatigue
This leaves Varangians 1 Fatigue for the whole 3 bounds
Slavs take 40/18 = 2 CPF for 4 fatigue
This gives Slavs 11 Fatigue for the whole 3 bounds

Slavs are AGAIN disordered (received double casualties and 1 CPF)
So Slavs must take an immediate waver check
If they fail Slavs break and rout
and then Varangians have option to pursue (Reg close foot)
If they pass Slavs must break off or recoil
If Slavs recoil
then Varangians have the option to follow up (Reg close foot)

repeat bound three results until the Slavs blow the waver test
or are exhausted (only 1 more bound anyway)

FOR A TOTAL OF 1 FATIGUE THE VARANGIANS HAVE BROKEN THE SLAVS

I must admit I don't see the Regular Varangians' weakness against
Irr C LMI JLS, Sh "the most common troop type in Warrior" here

[Ed Forbes]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:22:30 -0000 "J. Murphy" <jjmurphy@...>
writes:
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> so the second bound of HtH
>
> no support shooting
>
> Slavs now fight only 1 rank JLS
> = 9 figs @ 0 +1 (shieldless)
> = 9 @ +1 = 13 casualties
>
>

LMI JLS fight 1- 1/2 ranks in all situations I thought. Why do you say
only 1 rank?

7th would not allow 2nd rank of JLS to fight if no JLS + on opponents,
but this is not in Warrior I thought.

Slavs should still get munched, but should tire out the EHI doing it.
Considering the cost differantial, well worth it for the Slavs.

Ed

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Yes well worth the point loss, just remember to keep those routing slavs away
from the other slav units
Wanax

Ed C Forbes <eforbes100@...> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:22:30 -0000 "J. Murphy" <jjmurphy@...>
writes:
> --- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> so the second bound of HtH
>
> no support shooting
>
> Slavs now fight only 1 rank JLS
> = 9 figs @ 0 +1 (shieldless)
> = 9 @ +1 = 13 casualties
>
>

LMI JLS fight 1- 1/2 ranks in all situations I thought. Why do you say
only 1 rank?

7th would not allow 2nd rank of JLS to fight if no JLS + on opponents,
but this is not in Warrior I thought.

Slavs should still get munched, but should tire out the EHI doing it.
Considering the cost differantial, well worth it for the Slavs.

Ed

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Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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Consider not charging with the slavs. simply skirmish the EHI out of the game.
They both sit, or the EHI charge 5 turns then are tired. This is exactly how I
used to run M. Byz LHI B/sh against close order foot. shoot, evade, shoot
evade, shoot evade. yeah I'm shooting tired, but the B aren't there for HTH or
CPF. that's what the subgeneral lead EHC L/sh are for after the close order are
tired :)

Either way, to neutralize the very expensive EHI guard is an effective way to
focus on the supporting cav or LI.

>FOR A TOTAL OF 1 FATIGUE THE VARANGIANS HAVE BROKEN THE SLAVS




Lord of the Meadehall of men! Aknowledged professional sack lounger. Creator
of semi-lifeforms in their millions. The good looking twin, though sinister in
thought and deed. He who would produce but for 7 years of inactivity punctuated
by frenzied finger touching. Smooth.

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