Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[Frank Gilson]

I debated the choices between HC, HK, and EHK in a previous note...which has
some bearing on the choice of army list one would take to an event.

There are lists where one must choose between HC and EHC...and in between
lists you might look at one with EHC and another with HK.

What do EHC gain over HC? How do they compare to HK?

EHC is a 2 factor from JLS, Dart, and Bow fire while HC is a 4. That's very
significant, and makes a difference in prep and support shooting phases. EHC
are otherwise the same vs. other missile fire.

Sadly, EHC take the same 4 factor from Lance as HC, their biggest failing on
the combat charts. They do take one less than HC from Other Cavalry and also
from Chariot or Elephant crew.

EHC also improve one factor over HC against Pike/LTS, 2HCW/2HCT, and Other
Infantry categories. They are identical to HC in other cases.

What other factor do we need to consider? Well, if missile armed, EHC can't
skirmish, but HC can.

Comparing EHC to HK, EHC are 1 factor better (3 vs. 4) than HK against JLS,
Dart, or Bow fire.

EHC lose out in combat against mounted to HK quite convincingly, receiving a
4 from Lance and a 2 from Other Cav, while HK are a 2 and a 1
respectively...a huge difference.

Against infantry, EHC are 1 factor improved over HK against Pike/LTS, but
one worse against 2HCW/2HCT...otherwise the same. Chariot Horses, Elephants,
and Scythes are where EHC has some advantage over HK.

Our decision is twofold, do you take EHC over HC on a list where that is
permitted? or...do I run a HK list over a EHC list?

It's a complicated choice...in the EHC vs. HC case you lose skirmish but
receive some primarily anti-infantry benefits. If I was faced with a list
where some HC could be EHC, and I have access to LC and LI then I'd take a
few units of EHC, but retain a bit of HC for the ability to skirmish. If it
were all/none HC to EHC then I would probably not run the list, choosing
some other.

My choice is a bit more clear in the EHC vs. HK case. The cost in points for
HC to EHC or HK is identical. I wouldn't be charging EHC OR HK into Pike or
LTS, Elephants or Scythed Chariots. Thus, given that what advantages EHC
have over HK are very narrow and situational, I'd tend to choose a HK army
over a EHC army.

The only remaining factor in that case is that a fair amount of EHC has Bow
in addition to Lance, while this is clearly not true for HK. That does make
the EHC more points cost than HK...however.

Given things are so close...what are your opinions? I don't have enough
experience with Lance/Bow HC and EHC to debate the last point.

Frank Gilson

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[Greg Regets]

Well, I stayed out of the EHK vs. HK debate, because I actually think
the EHK is well worth the points and knew just about everyone would
be on the other side ...

... But, I will go with this one and see how it falls.

First of all, measure the intent of your cavalry arm. Is it going to
be used to wade in on the enemy on mass? If so, perhaps the HK is the
best choice for obvious reasons, especially if the enemy also has
cavalry committed to this same duty. Is the intent to support a
screen of skirmishers on the wing, to keep the enemy off your battle
line? If so, the skirmishing HC,L,B,Sh might be the best choice,
because, well .... because they skirmish, lol. Is the intent to
bolster an attack on the wing by sharp fighting skirmishers? In that
case, EHC,L,B,Sh is a nice choice because they shoot, and are not so
easy for the enemy to shoot up. You will be attacking anyway, so you
would not want to risk being skirmishers that get shot up, and have
to check to charge.

If you don't mind my asking, exactly which army/armies are we talking
about? I think all this advice everyone is giving is great, but
knowing what supporting cast is available, or what these are being
used as a supporting cast for, is the real answer to your question.

As far as factors reading is concerned, it is my opinion that you
should look at this weighted VERY HEAVILY towards the types of things
you will be fighting against and the effect of shooting before and
into your fights. I mean, what difference does it make if EHC is a
little better against P/LTS and Elephant Crew. All that means, is
that the EHC will be slightly less routed than the HC ... if you get
my drift.

At any rate ... I hope this helps a little, and good luck!

Greg

[Ewan McNay]

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Gilson"
<snip everything I agree with>

I was going to make a similar comment. Given that moving from HC to
either EHC or HK loses ability to skirmish, HK is (in my opinion,
clearly) the better bet.

If you're starting out with HC L, B, Sh and debating whether to
upgrade, my guess is that in an open tourney situation, you probably
shouldn't: either of the above will lose out to better mounted or to
many infantry, and will largely be able to kill things that they could
already kill as HC, so the ability to skirmish and fire is worthwhile.
Especially if regular; the case for irregulars upgrading is stronger.

EHC have to some extent become a trough in the value-for-money of
troop costs, I think. [They're one of the downsides to the K of V
list, he notes, trying vainly to link the threads...]

This is an excellent thread everyone! keep it going. All points are viable and
valuable.
For my part, I avoid EHC and EHK like the plague. EHC actually means extremely
heavy casulaties. They are targets you enemy will attempt to track down and
kill, which can be used as an expensive lure but ultimately they have to fight
and will usually get creamed by a combo of shooting and charging.

HK do have their purposes, yet I've always found that the extra fatigue for
charging added to the impetuous charge fp and the support shot coming in ment
the difference between hitting tired and hitting tired and disordered While
HC will certainly take many more casualties from missile, HK will in the final
analysis accomplish no real difference and cost more doing it. Of course, many
people differ on this point.

The only place I run EHC is at Derekcon or Siege of Augusta where the house rule
allows them to skirmish.....jiucy difference to be sure.

Wanax

ewanmcnay <ewan.mcnay@...> wrote:
<sniip>


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