Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[joncleaves]

Jon:

Never? Not even if impetuous? i seem to recall that impetuous troops must
echelon, even if this requires them to do so for more than 40 paces, thus
causing disorder. Am I caught in a TOG time warp, or is this still the deal?>>
[
There is nothing in Warrior that forces a body to make an echelon move.

Jon

[Bill Chriss]

>
> The bottom line to this point is: you are never forced to echelon.
>
> J
>
>


Jon:

Never? Not even if impetuous? i seem to recall that impetuous troops
must echelon, even if this requires them to do so for more than 40
paces, thus causing disorder. Am I caught in a TOG time warp, or is
this still the deal?


Greek

[joncleaves]

In a message dated 8/31/2004 17:02:31 Central Daylight Time,
greg.regets@... writes:

One would think that the first bullet of RUSH orders (4.51 p22) would
force you to do this, as you must declare charges on all legal
targets ... unles of course you could declare these charges, without
actually executing them. ha-ha!>.
[
I know you are kidding around, Greg, but just to be clear - nothing about
RUSH orders makes you echelon against a second target and no, you can't declare
a charge and then voluntarily not do it.

J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg Regets]

One would think that the first bullet of RUSH orders (4.51 p22) would
force you to do this, as you must declare charges on all legal
targets ... unles of course you could declare these charges, without
actually executing them. ha-ha!

g

--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Jon:
>
> Never? Not even if impetuous? i seem to recall that impetuous
troops must echelon, even if this requires them to do so for more
than 40 paces, thus causing disorder. Am I caught in a TOG time warp,
or is this still the deal?>>
> [
> There is nothing in Warrior that forces a body to make an echelon
move.
>
> Jon

[Greg Regets]

I was just kidding around of course. ;-)

but ...

This might be a suggested wording change. It does say you have to
declare against ALL legal targets, and if you could legally eshcelon
forward to contact a legal target, one would think that all, would
mean all.

g


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/31/2004 17:02:31 Central Daylight Time,
> greg.regets@g... writes:
>
> One would think that the first bullet of RUSH orders (4.51 p22)
would
> force you to do this, as you must declare charges on all legal
> targets ... unles of course you could declare these charges,
without
> actually executing them. ha-ha!>.
> [
> I know you are kidding around, Greg, but just to be clear - nothing
about
> RUSH orders makes you echelon against a second target and no, you
can't declare
> a charge and then voluntarily not do it.
>
> J
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[joncleaves]

It does say you have to
declare against ALL legal targets, and if you could legally eshcelon
forward to contact a legal target, one would think that all, would
mean all.>>

It says: "Charges count as declared on all legal targets in or moving into the
'charge path',"

Nowhere does it say that a charger must continue to echelon to hit all possible
targets. And it is not going to say this.

Jon

[Greg Regets]

Jon ... lol ... relax big fella ... I think we get your point! :-)

I believe you're crossing information from another post into this
one, which is understandable considering the confusion of the topic
and the trimming of the rest of the post. We get the charge path
thing ... as a matter of fact I agree with you that is was never
really unclear in the first place if you read it word for word.

I'm talking about a completely different issue ... 4.51 (page 22)
under RUSH orders, first bullet, when it says;

* All of the commands bodies that are not already in hand-to-hand
combat must move as fast as possible until within charge reach and
must declare charges on all legal targets.


The point I'm making is that if a taget can be contacted by
escheloning forward, they are a legal target, and this rule says you
must charge them. This would be a time where according to the way the
rule is written, you would be forced to eschelon forward.

I know your intent and understand it ... but a while back you asked
for help with unclear wording ... so don't beat us about the head and
shoulders when we give you what you asked for. :-)

Thanks ... g





--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> It does say you have to
> declare against ALL legal targets, and if you could legally
eshcelon
> forward to contact a legal target, one would think that all, would
> mean all.>>
>
> It says: "Charges count as declared on all legal targets in or
moving into the 'charge path',"
>
> Nowhere does it say that a charger must continue to echelon to hit
all possible targets. And it is not going to say this.
>
> Jon

[joncleaves]

I'm talking about a completely different issue ... 4.51 (page 22)
under RUSH orders, first bullet, when it says;

* All of the commands bodies that are not already in hand-to-hand
combat must move as fast as possible until within charge reach and
must declare charges on all legal targets.>>
[
Declare. Must declare on all legal targets. Declare. Relax? I am very
relaxed. DeclareDeclareDeclare muhuhahahahaha... ;)


<<The point I'm making is that if a taget can be contacted by
escheloning forward, they are a legal target, and this rule says you
must charge them.>>

Nope. It says you must declare on them. If you contact one before another in
your charge move, nothing makes you echelon to hit the second.

Declaring charges and charge moves are two separate things. Rules that apply to
declarations only apply to declarations - there should be no assumptions that
they apply somewhere else.

Jon

[Greg Regets]

I'm glad you taking this well ... as I don't mean to cause trouble.

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a unit, and
then voluntarily choose not to contact it?

I just know this can't be what you are saying ... I just know it! lol

g


--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> I'm talking about a completely different issue ... 4.51 (page 22)
> under RUSH orders, first bullet, when it says;
>
> * All of the commands bodies that are not already in hand-to-hand
> combat must move as fast as possible until within charge reach and
> must declare charges on all legal targets.>>
> [
> Declare. Must declare on all legal targets. Declare. Relax?
I am very relaxed. DeclareDeclareDeclare muhuhahahahaha...
>
>
> <<The point I'm making is that if a taget can be contacted by
> escheloning forward, they are a legal target, and this rule says
you
> must charge them.>>
>
> Nope. It says you must declare on them. If you contact one before
another in your charge move, nothing makes you echelon to hit the
second.
>
> Declaring charges and charge moves are two separate things. Rules
that apply to declarations only apply to declarations - there should
be no assumptions that they apply somewhere else.
>
> Jon

[joncleaves]

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a unit, and
then voluntarily choose not to contact it?>>
[
No. I am saying that after you make initial contact in a charge, any echeloning
by the charger is optional - not mandatory. If you hit two or more at the same
time, you must, if you hit one and lineup/pivot such that contact is made with
another legal target in your path, you must. ALL I am saying is that echeloning
is never mandatory.

J

[Greg Regets]

Then you ARE saying it ... lol

Not a problem ... we will play it this way. :-)

g



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a unit,
and
> then voluntarily choose not to contact it?>>
> [
> No. I am saying that after you make initial contact in a charge,
any echeloning by the charger is optional - not mandatory. If you
hit two or more at the same time, you must, if you hit one and
lineup/pivot such that contact is made with another legal target in
your path, you must. ALL I am saying is that echeloning is never
mandatory.
>
> J

[joncleaves]

Then you ARE saying it ... lol>.

No, I am not. And the reason I am not is that the sentence you wrote below can
be used for a number of abuses and is NOT the rule. Taking what you say below,
I could declare a charge and then not move my unit at all in the charge phase,
one of a number of examples of illegal things that could be done under that
statement. Please don't put words into my mouth. And I would also add that
these theoretical non-rules exercises aren't very helpful.

><<> Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a unit, and then
voluntarily choose not to contact it?>>

[Greg Regets]

I really don't see this as theoretical, but rather as unclear and
open to abuse.

Not a problem though ... your intent is clear enough. :-)

Thanks ... g



--- In WarriorRules@yahoogroups.com, JonCleaves@a... wrote:
> Then you ARE saying it ... lol>.
>
> No, I am not. And the reason I am not is that the sentence you
wrote below can be used for a number of abuses and is NOT the rule.
Taking what you say below, I could declare a charge and then not move
my unit at all in the charge phase, one of a number of examples of
illegal things that could be done under that statement. Please don't
put words into my mouth. And I would also add that these theoretical
non-rules exercises aren't very helpful.
>
> ><<> Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a
unit, and then voluntarily choose not to contact it?>>

[Kelly Wilkinson]

Just a side note,

In my NICT game with Robert Turnbull, I chose to echelon into a second unit of
enemy Pikemen to keep them from messing up another combat. It disordered me and
ended up with my elephants that were disordered (from echeloning more than 40
paces) breaking and causing much of my Burmese army to decide that it was time
to "go home!" I lost that game 3-5 and sadly for me, I was handily winning
before I made this fatal mistake. Remember boys and girls be very, very careful
when deciding to echeloning into another unit in a charge.

kelly

JonCleaves@... wrote:
Are you SERIOUSLY saying that you can declare a charge on a unit, and
then voluntarily choose not to contact it?>>
[
No. I am saying that after you make initial contact in a charge, any echeloning
by the charger is optional - not mandatory. If you hit two or more at the same
time, you must, if you hit one and lineup/pivot such that contact is made with
another legal target in your path, you must. ALL I am saying is that echeloning
is never mandatory.

J

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

>I'm talking about a completely different issue ... 4.51 (page 22)
>under RUSH orders, first bullet, when it says;
>
>* All of the commands bodies that are not already in hand-to-hand
>combat must move as fast as possible until within charge reach and
>must declare charges on all legal targets.>>
>
>Nope. It says you must declare on them. If you contact one before
>another in your charge move, nothing makes you echelon to hit the
>second.
>
>Declaring charges and charge moves are two separate things. Rules
>that apply to declarations only apply to declarations - there should
>be no assumptions that they apply somewhere else.
>
>Jon

But the final clause-- "and must declare charges on all legal
targets" implies that there are circumstances in the game when this
is NOT true. But I think we've been told that "charge declarations"
are applied to ALL legal targets as determined by the charge reach &
charge path rules...