Warrior Ancient and Medieval Rules

[John Murphy]

The subject says it all, so if you didn't want to read another too-
lengthy army list construction help query from me then, sorry,
delete now.

I have little desire to make a lengthy subject for everyone out of
this, but I really like this army - like the way it could look, like
reading about it, like the "personality" of it, and it is a fairly
simple army to boot without a whole lot of real options to futz
with. And there is the rub too. But I like it enough to consider
even trying to paint it myself, at least the easier figures - maybe
let someone with a better hand tackle the jupons. Which is saying a
whole lot cause I have successfully completed almost no painted lead
in 20 years. It stands next to (or even ahead of) Patrician Romans
and Early Nikephorian Byzantines as my favorite army, though I think
either of those or HYWE are probably more competitive given more
inspired gneralship.

The Free Companies of the second half of the 1300's, so without the
1444 options (i.e. leaving out the asterisked troops).

I was wondering if I am missing something obvious from a competitive
standpoint, other than perhaps it is not one of the top contenders
(though I am still at the point where the general is a bigger
problem than the army).

If you didn't know...

Free Company has a core of mixed Reg/Irr EHK/SHK knights, some of
which can be backed by HC sergeants. To add to this you have English
longbowmen which can not be upgraded or given stakes but can be
uparmored and/or get choppers and/or shields. They can also be taken
as loose or close foot.

Optional troops are two kinds. French crossbowmen can be open, loose
or close order, irregular or regular, can be uparmored and/or, if
close order, given pavises. Javelinmen can be loose or open order
irregulars with no other options. Oh, and you can get German
mercenaries too although they seem a bit pointless un;less you want
to play around with SHC.

As a final note any/all the English longbows and French crossbows
can also be mounted.

Theis last is an interesting possibility although very expensive.
But otherwise the maximum scouting points for the army is 14 (taking
French crossbows and Javelinmen to the max as LI and then taking all
4 sergeants). Maybe this is enough, although I would rather use the
crossbows as more 4/stand shooters which would drop this to 10
scouting, not enough to avoid being outscouted by most armies.

Taking the LB/CB mounted can make them 1 scout per element, and once
upon a time there was a conversation on this list about force
marching them without FP? But you never, ever, see folks do this in
Warrior as it costs 8 pts per element and is of very limited value I
am guessing after the first couple bounds of the game.

So I just ask, being determined to plug away at this one anyhow, if
there is an expert on running these out there or if I am missing
some obvious formula to get more out of them without resorting to
the 1444 troops, or perhaps there is no real way to make them more
competitive (other than fire the general) and I should just keep
plugging at them anyhow.

For instance, post-NICT, this is what I am kind of looking at for
them at the present moment (i.e. as of this morning - I am playing
them in a tourney starting this month so I need to figure out
something with them I can work with before the first game). Taking
the minimum required knights and every possible other non-asterisked
figure (less German SHC) as a start.

1x CinC and English Men-At-Arms
2E Reg B 1/2 SHK 1/2 EHK L, Sh (w/ PA std) @ 221 pts.

1x Sub-general and English Men-At-Arms
2E Reg B 1/2 SHK 1/2 EHK L, Sh (w/ P std) @ 151 pts.

4x French Men-At-Arms and French Sergeants
2E 1/2 Irr B SHK 1/2 Irr C HC L, Sh @ 103 pts.

6x English Longbowmen
4E Reg C 1/2 LHI 2HCW, LB, Sh 1/2 LMI LB @ 90 pts.

2x French Crossbowmen
4E Reg D 1/2 HI CB, Pa 1/2 MI CB @ 66 pts.

3x Javelinmen
4E Irr C JLS, Sh @ 49 pts.

Total 1,603 pts. (scouting 10)

Already vastly improved over my NICT list, and only one week later!

Things I would be inclined to look at include taking the CB as LI
vice loose-order to add 4 more scouts (though there is already
plenty of LI here for my taste), adding horses and/or dropping armor
on the longbows and crossbows, dropping weapons or shields on the
longbows and crossbows (making the latter loose vice close, if not
LI). Maybe also taking longbows as close foot and/or breaking them
up into a mix of 2E and 6E units (3 each?). I could even take the
javs as LMI but I need about three units of LI for force marching or
I run out of depth way too fast for the loose foot and Irreg knights.

One thing that would be nice would be to have 2-3 more Irreg knight
units but there is not anything I can really see giving up in the
quantities required to get that many points for them (as they would
have EHK backs and cost 124 each - about equivalent to all the c-
bows and javs).

Tactically, with the list as it is, is it safe to force march
anything besides the LI to 240p off the centerline?

If you read all this, sorry for the length. Hopefully will generate
some helpful hints though (besides "play another army").

[Ewan McNay]

John wrote:
> Free Company has a core of mixed Reg/Irr EHK/SHK knights, some of
> which can be backed by HC sergeants. To add to this you have English
> longbowmen which can not be upgraded or given stakes but can be
> uparmored and/or get choppers and/or shields. They can also be taken
> as loose or close foot.
>
> Optional troops are two kinds. French crossbowmen can be open, loose
> or close order, irregular or regular, can be uparmored and/or, if
> close order, given pavises. Javelinmen can be loose or open order
> irregulars with no other options. Oh, and you can get German
> mercenaries too although they seem a bit pointless un;less you want
> to play around with SHC.
>
> As a final note any/all the English longbows and French crossbows
> can also be mounted.
>
> Theis last is an interesting possibility although very expensive.
> But otherwise the maximum scouting points for the army is 14 (taking
> French crossbows and Javelinmen to the max as LI and then taking all
> 4 sergeants). Maybe this is enough, although I would rather use the
> crossbows as more 4/stand shooters which would drop this to 10
> scouting, not enough to avoid being outscouted by most armies.

This is not an army to really worry about being outscouted. You have
enough LI JLS to play in some terrain, and a ton of loose order
missile troops to fight against oppposing lights with. Slight
problems against the Sassanids, for instance, whose LC will get into a
shooting war on the basis that you may have to take wavers but he
doesn't - but overall not too bad.

> Taking the LB/CB mounted can make them 1 scout per element, and once
> upon a time there was a conversation on this list about force
> marching them without FP? But you never, ever, see folks do this in
> Warrior as it costs 8 pts per element and is of very limited value I
> am guessing after the first couple bounds of the game.

Correct. Essentially, mounting the infantry gives them one extra
march move. Just not ever worth the points. The only mounted
infantry I've ever seen used that were not compulsory were irregulars
with camels (regular camels cost a fortune), for the disordering
effect on mounted.

> So I just ask, being determined to plug away at this one anyhow, if
> there is an expert on running these out there or if I am missing
> some obvious formula to get more out of them without resorting to
> the 1444 troops, or perhaps there is no real way to make them more
> competitive (other than fire the general) and I should just keep
> plugging at them anyhow.

Caveat: comments below are on the basis of your posting, not having
the list to hand.

> For instance, post-NICT, this is what I am kind of looking at for
> them at the present moment (i.e. as of this morning - I am playing
> them in a tourney starting this month so I need to figure out
> something with them I can work with before the first game). Taking
> the minimum required knights and every possible other non-asterisked
> figure (less German SHC) as a start.
>
> 1x CinC and English Men-At-Arms
> 2E Reg B 1/2 SHK 1/2 EHK L, Sh (w/ PA std) @ 221 pts.
>
> 1x Sub-general and English Men-At-Arms
> 2E Reg B 1/2 SHK 1/2 EHK L, Sh (w/ P std) @ 151 pts.
>
> 4x French Men-At-Arms and French Sergeants
> 2E 1/2 Irr B SHK 1/2 Irr C HC L, Sh @ 103 pts.

I think this is all fine. If the HC can be HK then do that, but
otherwise fine.

> 6x English Longbowmen
> 4E Reg C 1/2 LHI 2HCW, LB, Sh 1/2 LMI LB @ 90 pts.

I would put these into a mix of 24-man, no-upgrade missile units and
8-man, armour-and-2HCW, shielded units. The latter are for following
up SHK charges, which you have nothing else to use for, for soaking
off fire, etc.

> 2x French Crossbowmen
> 4E Reg D 1/2 HI CB, Pa 1/2 MI CB @ 66 pts.

Assuming that you can only get 8E of these, I would keep them as loose
order (as close foot, they're just a magnet for lots of opponents, I
think, *especially* unshielded) and keep the 2x4E. If you can get 6E
units for the price of dropping the armour, great.

> 3x Javelinmen
> 4E Irr C JLS, Sh @ 49 pts.

I assume these are LI, and I would make them 6E if possible - more
resilient to being shot off, fewer cpf taken, more combat power in
woods etc.

Otherwise basically should be an OK (if brittle!) list. Relatively
easy to run given basically two troop types, SHK and missile loose order.

> Total 1,603 pts. (scouting 10)
>
> Already vastly improved over my NICT list, and only one week later!
>
> Things I would be inclined to look at include taking the CB as LI
> vice loose-order to add 4 more scouts (though there is already

Naah. 14 is still not many, and LI CB suck.

> plenty of LI here for my taste), adding horses and/or dropping armor
> on the longbows and crossbows, dropping weapons or shields on the
> longbows and crossbows (making the latter loose vice close, if not
> LI). Maybe also taking longbows as close foot and/or breaking them
> up into a mix of 2E and 6E units (3 each?). I could even take the
> javs as LMI but I need about three units of LI for force marching or
> I run out of depth way too fast for the loose foot and Irreg knights.

You've hit most of my initial comments above already.

> One thing that would be nice would be to have 2-3 more Irreg knight
> units but there is not anything I can really see giving up in the
> quantities required to get that many points for them (as they would
> have EHK backs and cost 124 each - about equivalent to all the c-
> bows and javs).

Agreed. 6 should be enough once you learn to focus them properly, and
follow-up against correctly-chosen targets with LHI 2HCW.

> Tactically, with the list as it is, is it safe to force march
> anything besides the LI to 240p off the centerline?

No. And I would actually be tempted not even to force march the LI -
yes, this goes completely against my usual doctrine and personal
approach of seizing table space, but this army is much more suited to
soaking and counter-punching. Few folk force march LC, so you will
usually have some small amount of manouvre space as your LI fan out.
Try it and see, I could be wrong here.

> If you read all this, sorry for the length. Hopefully will generate
> some helpful hints though (besides "play another army").

I think you are on the right track. Practice, grasshopper.

e